Locating the Big Dry Wash Battle Monument in Arizona - provisional date: 5th 6th May

[crawler#976]

CANCELED DUE TO ME HAVIN' A BAD COLD...

MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO IT AS A DAY TRIP - WE'LL SEE HOW IT'S GOING ON FRIDAY.





When: A weekend TBA – best guess May 5th and 6th.

This will be an overnight trip in the high country of AZ. Expect cool daytime temps, cold nights (although this might not be true this year...)

Where: Near Blue Ridge Resevoir on the Mogollon Rim in AZ.

What: R&R and finding the Big Dry Wash Battle Monument.

Meeting point and time: Clints Well, AZ. on Hyw 87, Meet and Greet at 10:30 AM, Depart at 11:00 AM.

Comms: 2M – 4WD 2 146.460

[crawler#976]

I had a heck of a time getting the historical info to post yesterday. There is something in the text on the original site that didn't wnat to work...



http://www.publiclands.org/museum/exhibits/BigDryWash.php

The Battle of Big Dry Wash

During the spring of 1882 a small group of White Mountain Apache warriors, sixty at the most, came out of their wilderness hiding and by early summer coalesced under the leadership of a man called Na-tio-tish.

In early July some of the warriors ambushed and killed four San Carlos policemen, including the police chief. Following the ambush Na-tio-tish led his band of warriors northwest through the Tonto Basin, raiding as they went. Central Arizona residents were greatly alarmed and demanded protection from the army which immediately sent out fourteen companies of cavalry from forts surrounding the Tonto Basin.

In the middle of July Na-tio-tish led his band up Cherry Creek to the Mogollon Rim, intending to reach General Springs, a well-known water hole on the Crook Trail. The Apaches noticed that they were trailed by a single troop of cavalry and decided to lay an ambush seven miles north of General Springs where a fork of East Clear Creek cuts a precipitous gorge into the Mogollon Rim. The Apaches hid on the far side and waited.

The cavalry company was led by Captain Adna R. Chaffee. Unbeknown to Na-tio-tish, Chaffee was guided by the famous scout Al Sieber who soon discovered the Apaches trap and warned the troops. Also unbeknown to Na-tio-tish, during the night Chaffee’s lone company was reinforced by four more from Fort Apache under the command of Major A. W. Evans.

Early in the morning of July 17 one company of cavalry opened fire from the rim facing the Apaches. Meanwhile Chaffee sent two companies upstream and two downstream to sneak across the canyon and attack the Apaches. Na-tio-tish failed to post lookouts and the troops crossed over undetected. From sixteen to twenty-seven warriors were killed, including Na-tio-tish.

The Battle of Big Dry Wash was the last battle fought between the Apaches and army regulars. It was also one of the few times that army soldiers fought and bested Apaches in actual battle, but this was mainly because, as one historian noted, it was one of the few instances in which Apaches allowed themselves to be drawn into conventional battle. Stephen G. Maurer

(Editor’s note: information for the above article was taken from Apaches: A History and Culture Portrait by James L. Haley, University of Oklahoma Press, 1981. The quote at the end is from Robert M. Utley’s Frontier Regulars: The United States Army and the Indians Macmillan Co., 1973

[seth_js]

Mark, as of right now I already got something going on the first weekend of May, but I might switch some stuff around so I can come with you.

[crawler#976]

...gonna be a R&R trip with a little exploration thrown in - I'll be 47 on Saturday, figured what better way to do a B'day! Might even wet a line at Blue Ridge!

[BajaXplorer]

Amy and I are hoping to be there. She will be in Boston that week for work and we don't know at this time when she will get back to the valley.
BX

[crawler#976]

Cool! Hope you can make it!

BX, if you guys want to come up later in the day, here are coords to the road we'll be camped on, and can pass the exact location to ya via 2m when you're in range.

34° 31' 47"N, 111° 13' 44"W

There are two monuments to the battle, one on the 300 road at General Springs (34° 27' 15"N, 111° 14' 59"W), the second at Blue Ridge Resevoir (34° 32' 47"N, 111° 13' 12"W). We'll be camping south of the monument at Blue Ridge - just don't know exactly where until we get there...

[JackSilb]

May, huh?!

We need to find a way to put the truck in a train, sleep over, then drive ...

-JACK

[crawler#976]

Hey Jack,

Just to the northeast of the area is Winslow, AZ. - a major rail head...

...but your rig would have to go thru Phx, Skull Valley, Ashfork and Flagstaff to get there!

[JackSilb]

Yeah, oh well. Maybe when gas gets really expensive people will rediscover the trains.

You guys have fun. Please keep that camera rolling.
-JACK

[MrS]

When: A weekend TBA – best guess May 5th and 6th.

I'd sure like to do this trip.

I don’t have a map here that shows Clint’s Well and I don’t know where it is. With the Cords you posted my WAG is this is near Payson? That’s about 500 miles for me. I would like to see this site, but not sure how to work it out for a two dayer.

May 5-6 I have a class, but 10-11 is better, but still a lot of driving. Keep us posted.

[MrS]

I dug out my Ari maps last night and quickly found the battle site (and Clint's Well)

I'd really like to see the site, but it looks unlikely I can go this time.

Thanks for the invite and I'll keep watching this trip.

[crawler#976]

Sorry, I hadn't updated the date - the 5th is my B'Day, so that's the "official" date :smilewinkgrin:

Clints Well is south of Flagstaff on Lake Mary Road, or just north of the intersection of Hyw 260 and Hwy 87.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&country=US&addtohistory=&searchtab=home&formtype=address&popflag=0&latitude=&longitude=&name=&phone=&level=&cat=&address=&city=clints+well&state=az&zipcode=


It's beautiful country - we'll be looping northeast of Clints Well then heading south to intercept the Mogollon Rim road to get some veiws of the edge of the cliffs.

[MrS]

Sorry, I hadn't updated the date - the 5th is my B'Day, so that's the "official" date :smilewinkgrin:

OK, that date we have a class and can't go, so have a HAPPY B-day, that are great way to get older. :beertoast:

I think the 900 miles of round trip pavement for a 2 day trip would made us very unlikely anyway. But thanks for the invite.

I'll look forward to you trip report.

I read about that battle from Fort Apache stuff. Have you been to the vistor center at Fort Apache? It was closed when we where there, but we did get to wander around the Fort.

[crawler#976]

No doubt - 900 miles for a weekend is a real stretch!

Ft. Apache - gonna have to get there...

We tend to spend our time in the eastern part of the state on the White Mountain Apache Res fishing.

[MrS]

We tend to spend our time in the eastern part of the state on the White Mountain Apache Res fishing.

Have you been to Fort Bowie? It doesn’t have the remaining structures like Ft Apache or Ft Verde, but they make up for it by presenting local historic events. Plus Ft Bowie is at Apache Pass and the history there with the Butterfield Overland is a real magnet to anyone who’s an old west history (not to be confused with Hollywood history) reader.

Speaking of Hollywood history I really have to comment the promoters who have brought Tombstone back to life.

Back to old forts in Az if you haven’t been to Fort Huachuca, go see there museum. Just get permission first, it has to put them is a more welcoming attitude

Here is a picture from the Ft Bowie Nat. Hist. Site

[crawler#976]

nope, haven't been there yet - going to have to investigate that too!

I'm hoping to do a trip on the Beale/Whipple/Sitgreaves trail this fall - following the 35th Parallel routes in northern AZ. Haven't started planning it yet, but thinking on a three day trip starting at El Morro Nat Monument in NM, and ending it where the routes enter the Baca Float south of Ash Fork, AZ. I doubt if I could get permission to go thru the 20 square mile ranch - they are extremely tight on access...

[MrS]

Kinda a double history passage, not only do ya get the wagon route, you get the famous car route.

I’d sure like to know about any plan you put together, because I’d like to go with you.

About your ‘Ash Fork’ statement. Either I mis-understand what you said, or my route info is wrong.

Near the town of Ash Fork as I recall the Beale Rd ran north of the current town site. Between Seligman and Williams it stayed north of the 40, even going around the North side of Mt Floyd. Maybe you have different/other info??

My to do list also includes a route I’m sure you know a lot about, maybe you can help plan this ‘someday trip’?? I’m talking about the 1860’s Flagstaff to Prescott wagon road (aka Overland Road?). I’ve not looked at any current detail maps, but how much is still doable?

Have fun on your B-day trip.

[crawler#976]

Scott Brady did quite a bit of research on the Overland Road last year, and I did some on the hiking route in the Kiabab Nat Forest. Scott lead a group up there for a combo hike and drive trip.

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1925&highlight=overland+trail

____________________________

Lt Whipple's 1854 trip camped near the present day Walnut Creek Ranger Station on the Prescott National Forest, and headed west thru the Baca Float #5:

http://www.sharlot.org/archives/history/dayspast/text/2000_10_24.shtml

also, there is a lot of info on the 35th parallel exporation on the site below:

http://www.southwestexplorations.com/

[BajaTaco]

Steve, this is cool to see you so interested in all of this AZ stuff. I haven't been to Ft. Apache since I was a kid, so it is on my to-do list. I have been to Ft. Bowie and the Chiricahuas quite a bit. Ft. Bowie is just awesome when you walk the area and consider everything that happened there. Sharon and I have camped out east of the fort and spent some really cool times there... watching deer graze on the parade grounds at dusk... and drinking from Apache springs. Good stuff.

I did the Overland route last year with a bunch of guys you know and it was really cool. I liked the hiking part with Randy and Uwe the best. Lots of the route has to be hiked.

One place I definitely want to visit is Doubtful Canyon. Did you and Anita make it there on your SE AZ trip?

Mark, I'd love to make this one, but I will be in Utah. I wish you a very happy B-DAY :beertoast:

[crawler#976]

Have fun Chris! We'll miss ya around the fire!

[seth_js]

nope, haven't been there yet - going to have to investigate that too!

I'm hoping to do a trip on the Beale/Whipple/Sitgreaves trail this fall - following the 35th Parallel routes in northern AZ. Haven't started planning it yet, but thinking on a three day trip starting at El Morro Nat Monument in NM, and ending it where the routes enter the Baca Float south of Ash Fork, AZ. I doubt if I could get permission to go thru the 20 square mile ranch - they are extremely tight on access...

Mark count me in on that fer sure... that is of course if you are accepting attendees. :hat:

[crawler#976]

Mark count me in on that fer sure... that is of course if you are accepting attendees. :hat:

I wouldn't put it out on a forum if I wasn't :yeah: and I'd be more than glad to have ya along!

[crawler#976]

Sorry guy's, I'm sick as a dog...

Gonna have to cancel this trip - may be able to do it as a day trip, I'll see how I'm doing on Friday...