Hybrid expedition vehicle

[BajaTaco]

Have any of you looked at the new Toyota Highlander hybrid? The preliminary specs on this vehicle can easily compelone to consider this technology for a light-expedition vehicle. You can see the specs here (http://www.new-cars.com/news/040104-toyota-highlander-hybrid.htm). Essentially, this is a 270 hp V6, 4wd vehicle that will get over 600 miles of range on a tank of gas. It has 80 cubic feet of cargo space with the rear seats folded down. Best of all, it is a Super Ultra Low Emmissions Vehicle. (SULEV).

I just wonder about the interface of the running gear with the engine, and what kind of challenges one would be presented with to modify it for heavy duty off-road use. It would be cool if Toyota would apply this technology to a serious off-road vehicle.

Anyway, just food for thought.


http://www.bajataco.com

[GoodTimes]

I like the way some mfr's are advancing their ULEV's and SULEV's. The problem I see with them is the cost associated with them, and the lack of support infrastructure. If you have powertrain trouble far from a major city, you are going to have trouble finding parts, let alone someone to do the work if you are not capable of it. The electronics systems in all vehicles (conventional, hybrid, whatever else) are becoming pretty in depth, and expensive. For a expedition vehicle, IMO, electronics that have not been proven and are not well understood, are bad because of the difficulty in troubleshooting problems. Add to that, the relative "newness" of them makes it hard to predict the common failure parts, so taking spares would difficult, unless you have a unlimited budget. </div>



As time and technology progresses, I think we will see the hybrids start to take over. But not until the average american becomes comfortable with the new technology, and the repair shops are set up to support them. Once they do start becoming very common, then the aftermarket will support them, and the availability of repair parts will become better, and then, only then, do I see them making a great expedition vehicle. When that finally happens, you can sign me up for one. Hopefully I can afford one by then.</div>


olllllllo <---- If you can read that, roll me over.

KG6OWO

Price is soon forgotton, quality is not.

[transalper]

The prospect of a 30-40 mpg expedition vehicle that has the torque to pull a trailer is not very far off. From what I understand, hybrids can have amazing torque which should make them very competent off-road vehicles. Weight will be an issue. Sometimes I have a very hard time balancing my greenie side (my job is erosion control and watershed protection) with my fuel guzzling 4runner. A SULEV, fuel efficent truck will allow us to truly tread lightly. Maybe my next Toyota will be a quad cab hybrid Tacoma??

Jay - 97 4Runner
www.geocities.com/transalper/4runner (http://www.geocities.com/transalper/4runner)

[JackSilb]

Is the mph when you need all the power of pulling a trailers and going up hill and/or off-road?

I would expect that the electric motors will ask for a lot of juice while at load. Once the batteries are low, then what? Where is the power coming from? Will the smaller gas engine do the job?
I am curious how they will deal with that.

Last time I was renting a car. The rent place told me that they had lots of problems with the hybrid. They have them only because government agencies give preference or rent only hybrids.

Yes, I am tech guy. I love these. Just posting some questions.

-JACK
</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[GoodTimes]

Jack, the current trend appears to be using a gas engine to charge the batteries and help when the motors are not enough. That would be when pulling hills, or loads. You are right, the electric motors do pull alot of power when loaded down, and most of the vehicles they are producing seem to be geared to getting the best milage possible in the tiniest vehicle possible. Especially if they are running low voltage (12v). There has always been a 'wall' of sorts with 12v, somewhere around 35Kw. Many companies are (have been for quite some time) looking at making the change to a higher voltage so that they can overcome that wall--even with the conventional drivetrain vehicles. I am not sure if they are using 12 volts for the power train, or if they have 2 seperate electrical systems, one for powertrain, and another stepped down for control. That seems the logical way, but I have not worked with anything related to the technology for 6 or 7 years. So most of what little I knew back then is probably obsolete today.

Some companies (GM for one), are staying away from the hybrid's, in favor of putting the R&D money into fuel cells instead. I'm not sure if this is the right move or not. I think the hybrids have alot of potential, but they need to be developed further, and the technology (particularly the control systems) need to be proven over time before they will gain wide acceptance here in the states.

What I would like to see, is some larger-scale versions of what they are producing now. Aim not for 60mpg out of a tiny go-cart sized car, but aim for 30mpg out of a tacoma sized pickup.


olllllllo <---- If you can read that, roll me over.

KG6OWO

Price is soon forgotton, quality is not.

[JackSilb]

This will generate lots of work opportunity for the power related engineers. Looking for a career change? Go for it!
-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[expeditionswest]

I just read this interesting article (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&amp;cid=677&amp;e=1&amp;u=/usatoday/hybridsuvgettingbigresponse)on the new Ford Escape Hybrid. They have had a huge response. The vehicle is expected to get 35mpg on the highway!</div>





Scott Brady
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com

[GoodTimes]

That's what I'm talkin' about! Get some better fuel economy out of a larger vehicle that 'middle class America' wants. That is how you make a impact. I never thought I would say this, but good job Ford!


olllllllo <---- If you can read that, roll me over.

KG6OWO

Price is soon forgotton, quality is not.

[alanh]

I suspect that gas prices will remain high and that will generate demand for more efficient vehicles where laws and regulations have failed. The oil companiesaren't investing in refining capacitytokeep up with the demand in the US and withAsian economies like Chinausing moreoil, I only see pricesgoing up. Whether they will evermake efficientoff-road/rough-roadvehicles is another question.</div>
As for the electric drive systems, I just assumed they would be quite a bit higher voltage. I came across an electric vehicle page a few weeks ago oriented toward do-it-yourself types and I think the motors were 48, 96vor even higher. They tended to be multiples of 12v for obvious reasons.</div>
As noted, even regular vehicles will probably go to higher voltates. When you start needing 150-200A alternatorsto run all the electrical stuff, the wire sizes get to be significant. I think 36 and 48 voltshave been studied - maybe others. They would probably put in some kind of dc/dc converter to power 12v accessories for some years as all the suppliers gradually make a transition to higher voltages.</div>
It sure would be nice to have a higher voltage for things like winches so such large wire wouldn't be needed, but you'd have to be a lot more careful about insulating and water-proofing.People will have to get used to the notion that the electrical system on their carshas enough voltage to kill.</div>

Alan

[BajaTaco]

GoodTimes said...
That's what I'm talkin' about! Get some better fuel economy out of a larger vehicle that "middle class America" wants. That is how you make a impact. I never thought I would say this, but good job Ford!http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/headscratch.gif You didn't see my first post at the top of the page? http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/joker1.gif I'm not knockin' da Ford. The more - the better. But regarding the "larger vehicle"... the Escape is smaller than the highlander and has less power. The Escape does get much better gas mileage. The Highlander has much further driving range. Lexus is also going to have a hybrid SUV out this fall too. And the Escape will have a Mercury counterpart I think also. Pretty cool to see all of this stuff coming to market.



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