Manual Hubs

[JackSilb]

Hello,

ProTrux can install manual hubs at your Toyota Tacoma or 4Runner for ~ $1,500.00.
What is the price on the market?

I know that some of theToyota folks here are considering this mod.
Reliability, wear on parts, save on gas, and save on CV booth changes.

Would one see some power improvement while driving in highways?

Thanks,
-JACK



So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[MrS]

JackSilb said...
ProTrux can install manual hubs at your Toyota Tacoma or 4Runner for ~ $1,500.00.http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/freaked.gif $1500 bucks?? I bet they will.

Not counting labor (since I'm doing my own) Mine would have been about $300, but I'm now replacing all the boots, so that added $55. I also plan to rebuild my hubs (3) at about $20 each, but that can wait. No, my 3rd hub is not for sale.

I'm not planning on counting labor cost for me, because;

1. its not a rush job, I can do it on an off day, so I'm not missing out on O/T at work.

2. I like to learn about my truck.


Jack,do you have $1500 burning a hole in your pocket? 1st the motor was 1500, now the hub swap??http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/joker1.gif http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/joker1.gif Ha Ha

Since ADD works so well, I don't think you goingto see any meaningfulpower improvement while drivingon the highways. The big plus is being able to dial in full lift, and longer front drivetrain life. Also if you have a front drive axle failure in the back-country, you have more & easier options to drive yourself out.


SOAPBOX:
IMO Manual hubs are not needed on a stock Toyota, I just don't see the need to live with the limits ADD has when Toyota makes eveything you need to remove those limits.



HA HA this posting tried to "Goodtime" mehttp://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/banghead.gif but I did a "copy" before hitting submit,http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/ok-kewl.gif lets see if this worked. Because I'm not typing this again


KF6YSB

[expeditionswest]

Manual hubs are a great move for an IFS truck. I installed superwinch hubs on my trooper, and gained a few MPG, and better acceleration. There would not be that great of an improvement on the Toyotas with the ADD. In the Troopers case, the front end was always turning. I think the biggest benefit is saving the CV-boots/joints. When I installed the 285/75's on the Trooper in needed to increase the torsion lift, which put the CV joints at an aggressive rake.</o:p></div>
</o:p></div>
Good discussion!</o:p></div>
</o:p></div>
Here is the Trooper in Mammoth, CAwith the 285’s and the hubs installed. This is my CA vehicle…</o:p></div>
</o:p></div>
http://www.expeditionswest.com/Laurel_Lakes_CA/images/trooper_flex_jpg.jpg



Scott Brady
2001 Land Rover Discovery II
1998 Isuzu Trooper
1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1977 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com
http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2003/El_Golfo_2003/thumbnails/DSC00417_JPG.jpg

[JackSilb]

> Jack,do you have $1500 burning a hole in your pocket? 1st the motor was 1500, now the hub swap?? Ha Ha

I did not say I was doing. This was the price they asked for. I don't have any, actually I am accepting donations.

$1,100 for parts. All that you need. I saw the kit that came from Northwest part or something like that.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

Thanks Scott. It looks good.</div>
Need to check it in person. </div>
Maybe Steve can make some $$ on the weekends.
Do you want to do some manual hub installation?
Not now, as I said before I don't have the $$.

Thanks,
-JACK
</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[MrS]

http://www.offroadsolutions.com/products/4runners.htm

These guys $1039

KF6YSB

[BajaTaco]

MrS said...


... being able to dial in full lift...


Yea, but IMO, there are other reason's not to lift more than 2 1/2" - 2 3/4" (on the Taco/4Runner) besides ADD. You will really compromise the ride quality, down travel, and also put more stress on the ball-joints. All of the other reasons you listed are very good reasons to do it though.
Scott, I really dig thatIsuzu - very nice. I think those are good looking vehicles. That rear end has alot of flex!
</div>


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

Post Edited (BajaTaco) : 11/26/2003 1:04:03 AM GMT

[expeditionswest]

The Isuzu Trooper is probably the most overlooked expedition platform in the US, and it is one of my favorite vehicles. I have even considered bringing mine back from CA and using it as a dedicated expedition rig. It has over 90 cu ft of space in the back, and with the rear seats removed the load area is perfectly flat. It has a 108' wheelbase, and will fit 285/75 R16's without a lift. I installed OME heavy rear springs and cranked the bars a little for more clearance, but the tires fit without. These vehicles are very popular in Australia, and have great aftermarket support (full ARB line, etc.). Plus, you can get them real cheap! A 2000 4wd will only be $16-18,000

Scott Brady
2001 Land Rover Discovery II
1998 Isuzu Trooper
1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1977 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com
http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2003/El_Golfo_2003/thumbnails/DSC00417_JPG.jpg

[BajaTaco]

Sweet! (sorry - I said "Mitsu" in my post by accident, but I fixed it http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/blush.gif )

Yea, I remember reading your comments on your website regarding this vehicle.Ihad no idea you could fit 285's without lift! Is thatwithminimal rubbing when4-wheeling?How about reliability - what is your experience with that?


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[JackSilb]

Also, in other countries Mitsubishi Pajero (Montero here) is very popular. For a file I was looking at one, until I saw the cargo area.
We can continue this discussion on the expedition vehicle Thread.

- JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[GoodTimes]

Just want to add a couple comments about generic IFS lifts. Any IFS lift that does not use drop brackets to relocate your suspension components lower is going to cause you a few problems (the higher you go, the bigger the problem). First, as already mentioned, you put your CV joints at a increased angle, which increases the wear on the boots and the joints are weaker when at extream angles. Next, your ball joints will not be at their optimum operating angle. Some lifts fix this with either tapered shims for the joints, or new control arms with the ball joint plates at the proper angle for the lift. Next, your control arms are going to be lower in their arc of travel. This will induce excessive camber change when the suspension cycles. Loss of handling and increased tire wear are the result. Then there is the increased angle on the tie rod ends, relative to the centerlink. Depending on the steering system design, this can lead to aexcessive toe-in situation when the front tires are pulling a heavy load (usually 4-lo climbing over rocks, etc.). That will lead to shortened life of the idler arm and pitman arm, and can cause a certain amount of bump steer.</div>
The kits that use drop brackets to lower the suspension and front drivetrain can cause the same steering problems, although many of those kits include steering components to help correct the problem.</div>
Now don't get too aweful scared, a properly designed lift can be a good thing, and these issues are usually minor, if you keep things as the lift manufacturer designed them (don't over crank your torsion bars, etc). But the do exist, so you should think about them when deciding on a lift.</div>http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/beertoast.gif


olllllllo <---- If you can read that, roll me over.

KG6OWO

Price is soon forgotton, quality is not.

[JackSilb]

GoodTimes and the nice tech report as usual. Thanks.
-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[WhiteThaiGer]

One of my outside CV boots has a little grease come out at the narrow side. It had ProTrux look at it, they say it's ok. Now while there we talked.... I'd like some opinions from you experienced guys on what they told me:

-replacing the CV boots is best done by replacing that axle part with new boots one it. $75 per side + labor

- To save CV boots and increase MPG a little get manual hubs (Scott made these points above too). Theysell used manual hubs (original Toyota, but used) for $75 ea. for my 2Gen 4Runner. Add labor.

Sooo, it seems to me it would make sense to do the hubs and axle together in order to combine the labor charges. I guess it could be done for around $400.

Are there issues with using used hubs? What to watch out for?

Any other comments?

I guess I don't even know how you properly use the manual hubs..http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/eyes.gif Do you engage them for the weekend out in the desert once you need 4x4 the first timeand then disengage them when your drive back home? Or do you engage/disengage all the time?


***************************************
http://www.confluence.org
http://www.usgo.org


Post Edited (WhiteThaiGer) : 12/12/2003 6:33:28 PM GMT

[expeditionswest]

You can employ what ever method you choose when it comes to engaging the hubs. I usually engage them when I get to the trail, and disengage them before I hit the pavement. You could also leave them engaged for long periods of time too. When I lived in Idaho, I left my hubs engaged all winter. That way you can shift in, and out of 4wd like you would have before, but you loose the benefits also. Does your toyota require the same level of modification as Jacks? or is it as simple as removing the splined drive flange or Auto hubs?



Scott Brady
2001 Land Rover Discovery II
1998 Isuzu Trooper
1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com

[JackSilb]

Uwe,

When you engage them, it will be just like your current setup. You still need to put in 4WD.
When they are free you are not moving the axles while your wheels spin.

You are getting a very good deal. Please double check the TOTAL cost.
My quote was $1,500.
$400 to $500 was just the labor.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[WhiteThaiGer]

Scott Brady said...
You can employ what ever method you choose when it comes to engaging the hubs. I usually engage them when I get to the trail, and disengage them before I hit the pavement. You could also leave them engaged for long periods of time too. When I lived in Idaho, I left my hubs engaged all winter. That way you can shift in, and out of 4wd like you would have before, but you loose the benefits also. Does your toyota require the same level of modification as Jacks? or is it as simple as removing the splined drive flange or Auto hubs?

Thanks Scott.

Mine is the 2nd generation 4Runner, Jack has the 3rd generation. From what I understand it is as 'easy' as removing the Auto hubs and putting the manual hubs in. That's why the quoted the price of about $225 (2 used hubs at $75 + labor).

I told them that I had heard that it's expensive to do the manual hubs, that the Taco guys and Jack had quoted those high numbers and they told me that those vehicles need a lot of work for this job. That's onereason they like the 1st and 2nd generation 4Runners.[/quote]


***************************************
http://www.confluence.org
http://www.usgo.org

[BajaTaco]

Yea Uwe, they are correct. Much cheaper to do the swap on your model year. If I could pay someone $400 and drive away with new CV axles and manual hubs, I would be all over that http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Regarding the leaky boot - it's nothing urgent, and you will be fine to drive it around like you have been. BUT, if you leave it that way, you could damage the CV joint by gradually depriving it from the lubrication the grease provides, not to mention, if the grease can get out, then dirt, grime, and moisture can get in. TheWORST part is, you will get your nice front-end parts all gooped with dirty grease http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/nono.gif http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/lol.gif

As far as cost goes, the method I mentioned in the email is the least cost, but if you want to put new boots on, and pay someone to do it, then it is just as easy to have new (remanufactured) CV axles put on. Less mess and fuss,and the complete axles don't costtoo much more money than the boot kits.

One other option I will mention to make your decision more difficult... http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/biggrin.gif

You could keep your CV axles and auto hubs just the way they are (they have worked just fine all this time, right?) and just pack some new grease in the boot and put new clamps on, and put that $400 towards a LOCKER or some new TIRES. http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/yeah.gif


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[JackSilb]

I guess Baja is to something. On the number, the locker will take you to more pleasure and safety.
Then when you get that bonus, you go for the manual hub.
It is all money, just if we could make more as we can spend it. ...

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[WhiteThaiGer]

BajaTaco said...
Yea Uwe, they are correct. Much cheaper to do the swap on your model year. If I could pay someone $400 and drive away with new CV axles and manual hubs, I would be all over that http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Regarding the leaky boot - it's nothing urgent, and you will be fine to drive it around like you have been. BUT, if you leave it that way, you could damage the CV joint by gradually depriving it from the lubrication the grease provides, not to mention, if the grease can get out, then dirt, grime, and moisture can get in. TheWORST part is, you will get your nice front-end parts all gooped with dirty grease http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/nono.gif http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/lol.gif

As far as cost goes, the method I mentioned in the email is the least cost, but if you want to put new boots on, and pay someone to do it, then it is just as easy to have new (remanufactured) CV axles put on. Less mess and fuss,and the complete axles don't costtoo much more money than the boot kits.

One other option I will mention to make your decision more difficult... http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/biggrin.gif

You could keep your CV axles and auto hubs just the way they are (they have worked just fine all this time, right?) and just pack some new grease in the boot and put new clamps on, and put that $400 towards a LOCKER or some new TIRES. http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/yeah.gif Thanks a lot Chris, what a big help! http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/joker1.gif

Seriously though, you make some very good points, and after discussing the issues with Steve a little more this weekend I think I have some research coming up...


***************************************
http://www.confluence.org
http://www.usgo.org