10/10/2003 Weekend trip schedule

[expeditionswest]

I am planning several trips for this weekend. I have a friend coming from Alaska for a little adventure, and I wanted to extend an invitation to this group.

10/9- Anza Borrego- A short scouting trip on my way back to AZ from Southern CA. I am looking for a fun, challenging trail. Any ideas would be appreciated.

10/11- Charouleau Gap, Tuscon

10/12- FR42 Trail, Arizona

If anyone is intersted in attending, let me know. We can work out start / meeting times if there is any interest.



Scott Brady
2001 Land Rover Discovery II
1998 Isuzu Trooper
1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1977 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com
http://www.expeditionswest.com/Roverlaplaya.jpg

[BajaTaco]

Hey Scott! Looks like you are jumping in with both feet! http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/supercool.gif

I'll bet you get some good suggestions for AB from this group.

Wolfsoul lives down there in Tucson so maybe he'll chime in - I know he just recently ran that trail.

FR42 - Kyle lives in Phx. - but I think he might be working on his Jeep this weekend.

You know I would go with you, but I have some.. prior arrangements http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/wink.gif


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[Rockcrawler]

Yep... workin' on the Heep... besides, last time I made the grave error of letting Wrong Way lead that trail and we got lost... We ended up leaving the way we came in rather than completing the trail. Oh well... less pavement time I guess. :)


"Paved Roads: Another example of wasteful government spending." KD7UEH

[WhiteThaiGer]

That weekend starts early... I got to work at least Friday/Saturday, so no time for an AB trip.
Here is the sat pic of our AB trip in February, just before this forum started:
http://members.cox.net/confluence/
Baja has some pics of that trip on his site: http://www.bajataco.com/anza_borrego/index.htm

You are leaving tomorrow allready, a little short notice to find the track and route info. Most of the roads are not marked, so it's difficult to give a quick description in text only. I think Split mountain and Sandstone canyon may actually be marked. It starts with Split Mtn road in Ocotillo Wells (paved). Where the pavement ends turn rightinto Fish Creek Wash.After going through the Split just continue in the main wash and then Sandstone canyon takes of to the left somewhere http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/headscratch.gif (sign??). It's on all the topos, even the DeLorme Atlas. Not much 4x4 on this route, except at the very end of Sandstone canyon. I don't know the challenging trails in AB like in Truckhaven area or Pinon Mtn.


***************************************
http://www.confluence.org
http://www.usgo.org


Post Edited (WhiteThaiGer) : 10/9/2003 3:58:08 AM GMT

[YukonBob]

Rockcrawler said...
besides, last time I made the grave error of letting Wrong Way lead that trail and we got lost... Now this sounds like a story. Let's get the dirty laundry our of the way.http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[GoodTimes]

I might be up for FR42. Depends on how things go with Kyles heep this weekend.

the Gap is recovering nicely from the fire, although we did not run it in it's entirety.


olllllllo <---- If you can read that, roll me over.

KG6OWO

Price is soon forgotton, quality is not.

[expeditionswest]

Anza-borrego- I will probaly just run one of the trails in the California Backroads book by Charles Wells. To break the monotony of flying every week,I try to drive back to AZ every once in a while. On my way backI like to throw in a quick4wd trail for fun.</div>
FR42- It would be great to havea few of you attend. I have run this trail once before in the Discovery, and it is alot of fun. I dont know ifI will bring the Jeep or the Disco. I might bring both, since my buddyMike is in town from Alaska. For those that are interested, we will meet at thepay station at Bartlett Lake at 9:30. I will be happy to provide more info if you need it.Note: I also have a GPS route for this trail, so we shouldn't get lost...</div>
C-Gap- This is one of my favorite trails in the state, andI am curious to see how it was affected by the fire and subsequent flooding.Let me know if anyone is interested!</div>
We are also doing a quick trip down to Baja from the 16th to the 19th of October. El Golfo to Rocky Point....</div>
I plan on posting future trips here too, for those that cant make these. Here are a few that I planning:</div>
Early November: Vintage vehicle trek (Nothing newer than 1979). We will run the Crown King trail in AZ. I am bringing my 1977 FJ40, and there should be plenty of old Land Rover's in attendance.</div>
Late November: Coronado campout. Hike Sycamore Canyon, run trails and explore the area further.</div>





Scott Brady
2001 Land Rover Discovery II
1998 Isuzu Trooper
1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1977 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com
http://www.expeditionswest.com/Roverlaplaya.jpg

[AlWalter]

Did the El Golfo to Rocky Point a few months ago with Yukon Bob. Not much challenge besides a little loose sand in spots.

KG6SGM

[JackSilb]

> I am planning several trips for this weekend. I have a friend coming from Alaska for a little adventure, and I wanted to extend an
> invitation to this group.
> 10/9- Anza Borrego- A short scouting trip on my way back to AZ from Southern CA. I am looking for a fun, challenging trail. Any ideas
> would be appreciated.

Scott, sorry I was swamp at work and did not check the Forum before this trip.
I spent the weekend driving the kids around. Well, yesterday we went to Puerto Nuevo for some lobsters. That was an OK trip.
Anyway, lets try next time.

From your postings it seems that you will be driving between the locations where people in this Forum live. I am sure we will have a chance to make some trips together.
If you have a chance, please share some pictures with us from what you did during this weekend.
I know you have a cool website, but please let me know in case you need space on our photogallery.

Thanks,
-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[expeditionswest]

Quick update:

We just got back from the El Golfo to Puerto Penasco trip, and itwas incredible! This was my first major trip to Baja, and everything went great. Now I can't wait to plan my next trip (or join one of the groups). I am still in awe.

I will post a detailed report in the next few days. We did a little exploring off of the main route that some of you may have interest in. I have the track saved from the GPS for those with interest.



http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2003/El_Golfo_2003/DSC00417.JPG

http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2003/El_Golfo_2003/P1010062.JPG

Scott Brady
2001 Land Rover Discovery II
1998 Isuzu Trooper
1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1977 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com
http://www.expeditionswest.com/Roverlaplaya.jpg

[JackSilb]

Scott,

It seems that you guys had a great time. I like the gear you guys were carrying. Also, he TLC looks very nice. Who is the TLC person?
Can he come her and chat with us? I will be looking to buy a TLC in the next months. I have been talking about this for a while. Recent city moves has postponed the plan. But it is coming.

How is the Discovery doing? You are the first one I met that use this truck for it was built for. Did you have problems since yo got it?

Some people from this trips are in a trip now. I am sure when BajaTaco and Yukon Bob are back they will get some conversation going with you.

-JACK


-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

I will move this Thread to the Previous Trips OK?
I will give you a couple of days to read this posting.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[AlWalter]

The only problem is that neither El Golfo or Puerto Penasca are in Baja. Thay are both in the state of Sonora.

KG6SGM

[expeditionswest]

Al-Baja or Sonora,it all seemed like paradise to me. Our original itenerary included a trip to canyon de guadalupe, hence the Baja reference. </o:p></div>
</o:p></div>
</o:p></div>
Jack- We had a great time, andI appreciate the comments on the gear. Here are some comments on your vehicle questions:</o:p></div>
</o:p></div>
Toyota Land Cruiser- This vehicle belongs to my most frequent travel partner and good friend Doron. He has built quite a vehicle, and it performs well in most situations. I will mention to him about joining the list to field some of your questions. He modified the truck specifically for expedition travel with 70 gallon fuel capacity, etc. Here is a little more info http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/adventurepartners/Doron/doron100.html</div>
</o:p></div>
Land Rover Discovery- My Land Rover has been a mixed bag. I have had some issues with the traction control system, but other than that it has been perfect. The basic design is perfect for a medium load expedition rig, with a short wheelbase, solid axles, strong/dependable drive train, etc. The older (series I) Land Rover Discovery's had a lot of nagging reliability issues, but most were resolved for the series II under BMW's control. In my opinion, the biggest issue with the 1999-2003 Disco II was the lack of a center differential lock. I was able to retrofit my vehicle, but several years do not have that option (without great expense). I go into additional detail on the following web page. http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/ewvehicles/Land_Rover_Discovery/index.html The Rover will probably not be my long term solution though, as I am currently investigating a dedicated expedition vehicle. Possibly a Super Duty, Tundra or Tacoma with a Fourwheeler camper, etc. I will use the Rover a daily driver/trail vehicle, and use a larger vehicle, with higher GVWR for the longer trips. </o:p></div>
</o:p></div>Hope this answers your questions.




Scott Brady
2001 Land Rover Discovery II
1998 Isuzu Trooper
1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1977 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com
http://www.expeditionswest.com/Roverlaplaya.jpg

[AlWalter]

Canon de Guadalupe is nice, but I think you need to commit to a 3 day stay, at least that was what they wanted a couple of years ago. I've enjoyed it.

KG6SGM

[GoodTimes]

nice! what kinda 'yak you guys pulling?

I still want to head south and play....


olllllllo <---- If you can read that, roll me over.

KG6OWO

Price is soon forgotton, quality is not.

[expeditionswest]

We were both using Daggers (10.5 and 12.5 ft) rented from REI in Pheonix. Now I am looking to buy my own.

Scott

Scott Brady
2001 Land Rover Discovery II
1998 Isuzu Trooper
1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1977 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com
http://www.expeditionswest.com/Roverlaplaya.jpg

[BajaTaco]

Dang - I keep looking at those pics - they look sooo good! All of the stuff I like! hehehe

http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/hop.gif


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[GoodTimes]

Scott Brady said...
We were both using Daggers (10.5 and 12.5 ft) rented from REI in Pheonix. Now I am looking to buy my own.

Scott

I have a Dagger Blackwater (12.5) in my livingroom. I would not buy another. They are lacking on some really useful features (such as knee braces), and I found that I like the narrow 'yaks better (once I figured out how stable they really are). If you have not been paddling for long, I strongly suggest you take at least a beginners paddling class BEFORE you buy. I didn't. In fact, I only took the class after the second time I ate sh** crossing the surf on Palos Verdes. http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/smashfreakb.gif

I opted to rent a 'yak for the class, and wish I would have rented several brands/models before buying. My Dagger is so wide and stable, I don't get to do any bracing, and forget about rolls in all but the nastiest of conditions. The blackwater will make a nice fishing boat though....http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/idea.gif . It does well on flat water, but on the open ocean, it is out of it's element (to short and too wide).

So what say we try and organize a paddling trip sometime in the future? I'm sure Baja and Wolfie would be in for it......http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/idea.gif Anyone else wanna go play in the water?http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/beertoast.gif


olllllllo <---- If you can read that, roll me over.

KG6OWO

Price is soon forgotton, quality is not.

Post Edited (GoodTimes) : 10/23/2003 3:51:23 PM GMT

[BajaTaco]

GoodTimes said...

[quote]I'm sure Baja and Wolfie would be in for it......http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/idea.gif
</div>You know I would!

BTW, you really need to come up and do Watson lake.


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[expeditionswest]

Thanks for the feedback on the Dagger. I have done some kayaking, mostly in Alaska, and have looked into taking a course. THere are several good ones in Phoenix.

I really enjoyed the boats, and wont want to go back to the beach without them. Scuba gear too!

Scott

Scott Brady
2001 Land Rover Discovery II
1998 Isuzu Trooper
1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1977 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com
http://www.expeditionswest.com/Roverlaplaya.jpg

[GoodTimes]

Scott Brady said...
...Scuba gear too!

Scott
</div>That is another thing I want to try eventually.....

If you have been kayaking some, then you are probably in a better position than I was when I bought mine. I was not really educated on that purchase--I thought I was (did lots of reading), but I guess I wasn't (never went out and "test paddled" any). Don't get me wrong about the dagger. It is a decent 'yak, it just doesn't have everything on it that I would want if I were to buy another one. It did quite well for me in my flat water adventures (once I learned how to cross the surf zone anyway http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/banghead.gif ), and I hope it will continue to.

Chris, the rest of this year is kinda crazy, but once things get settled down, I hope to start exploring the state (including 'yak trips).


olllllllo <---- If you can read that, roll me over.

KG6OWO

Price is soon forgotton, quality is not.

[JackSilb]

> Our original itenerary included a trip to canyon de guadalupe, hence the Baja reference.

Been there two or three times. You must go there.
It is nice to see an oasis.
We could potentially plan a trip there for the folks that have not done that.
Each camp site has its own private hot tube.


-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

> as I am currently investigating a dedicated expedition vehicle. Possibly a Super Duty, Tundra or Tacoma with a Fourwheeler camper, etc.
> I will use the Rover a daily driver/trail vehicle, and use a larger vehicle, with higher GVWR for the longer trips.

No need to look any further!
Get together in one of our trips and check Baja and SteveS (A.K.A 007) rigs. They are what you are looking for.

I am divided (70%) on getting a TLC and (30%) getting a Tacoma.
If I am good, I can get rid of the minivan (yes we have one too) and get both the TLC and the Tacoma. But, will need to convince my wife to go to work on a modified TLC. Or make the lottery and get her a BMW.


Sorry I was away from the Forum for so long. Work is going 100% pressure and stress. Good work though.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

> He modified the truck specifically for expedition travel

Just checked the link. Nice work.

Can you ask him about the 'Rear Axle 4.3 ratio, Factory Locker'
I was under the impression the the 98 and newer TLCs were not coming with lockers but the central differential.
Better yet, just ask him to stop by and join the discussion.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[expeditionswest]

1998 and 1999 TLC had the locker in the rear only. 2000 and newer user traction control only. 2004 uses traction control, but adds hill decent control and start assist control. I asked Doron tonight to join the list, he should be here soon. He is the guy to talk to about the TLC UZJ100

I do like Chris' Tacoma. I have always been a Toyota fan (I still have my 1977 Land Cruiser FJ40), having owned a 1985 solid axle truck, and a 1989 4runner. I have spent the last 8 years running the more extreme terrain, and now I am ready to move toward vehicle dependent expedition travel. I have made rush decisions before, sooo I am going to wait until I know exactly what I want. Actually, something that meets most of my needs, and the requirements of my travel partner (aka wife)...

If it was just me, I would buy a 1997 FJ80 with factory lockers, fit 285 on it with a big fuel tank, throw a Hannibal tent on the top, and call it done!http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/supercool.gif

We will probably settle on a Tundra with a Fourwheeler camper, shower set-up, potty, etc. Time will tell...http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/headscratch.gif

Scott Brady
2001 Land Rover Discovery II
1998 Isuzu Trooper
1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1977 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com
http://www.expeditionswest.com/Roverlaplaya.jpg

[JackSilb]

> I am ready to move toward vehicle dependent expedition travel.

Same here.
The question is what to get.
Once I got in Baja's setup, it is way too nice for not consider it. It was very windy outside, inside his setup was nice and easy. A large comfortable bed. Baja and Steve S both have cool mods. It makes traveling on the back roads and camping much easier.

Options:
a) TLC
b) Tacoma double Cab
c) Tacoma Extra Cab
d) Tundra
e) Some large pickup double cab diesel.

They all have their strong points.
Maybe starting a discussion here will help others.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[WhiteThaiGer]

Now Jack, are any of the vehicles you list long enough for a person to sleep in. You know what I am talking about, someone who can still look on top of the roof of a lifted truck, someone who can get stuff off BajaTaco's roof rack without haveing to climb on something http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/smilewinkgrin.gif


***************************************
http://www.confluence.org
http://www.usgo.org

[JackSilb]

Uwe, good question. I guess you will need your own mod. A sleeping bed that extend out of the truck bed.
Maybe the Tundra would work for you. We need to get the dimensions.

As you all know, the problem with the larger trucks is how to make in the rough trails. Having two vehicles would help. Now we are talking about more $$.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[BajaTaco]

Yea, I was pretty impressed on the Mojave run this year, when we had to take the tire off of my roof rack to fit under the RR bridge... and Uwe just walked up and lifted my spare right off the rack and set it on the ground! http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/shocked.gif

Regarding the vehicle... it's all about compromises. You will have to make them. So, best to think about what your priorities are and go from there, since you will no doubt have to compromise some aspect of what you ultimately would love to have. Even if you have two vehicles (or three!) you can't drive them all on the same trip at once.

In a nutshell I think these are the 3 main categories (each one could be broken down and discussed at length)that you unfortunately cannot have all of in one vehicle:

1. Light, agile andcompact for the tough trails,and good gas mileage (this means reasonable running gear and rolling profile)

2. Good and toughmodifications for trails, lift, larger tires, lockers, sliders, bumpers, skid plates, etc.

3. Creature comforts for expedition travel - shelter, food, long-range supplies (incl. water/fuel), camping gear.

For example, my Tacoma is fairly light and compact considering what I have it equipped with (expedition travel) but for what it is (Toyota Tacoma) it is very heavy and the power-to-weight ratio is at the upper limits when you consider the longevity and trail capabilities of the vehicle.

A Uni-Mog may seem to be the obvious choice for those who want a big, luxurious camper that "go anywhere" but in reality, a Uni-Mog with a big "house" sitting on the back of it is quite a huge mass to take on a tight, very difficult trail that requires lots of articulation and possible steep angles. Also - think about the efficiency of this vehicle for long trips - not efficient at all. ($$$)

Somewhere in the middle (full-size truck/camper) is going to be compromising too, because now you lose the sheer brute strength of the Mog when you consider all of the weight that must be managed on a difficult trail, not to mention a big heavy rig like this simply cannot do some of the trails that a smaller 4x4 could. And again, the efficiency of the vehicle is less on a long trip (diesel would help). However, you can certainly travel MUCH more comfortably in a setup like this so the time you are off of the difficult trails will be very pleasurable (i.e. general exploration on moderate roads/trails).
</div>


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[expeditionswest]

I started a new topic in the mods section titled: Expedition / Adventure Vehicle Discussion...</div>
It seems that several members are looking for new vehicles.Maybe we can help each other out on this. http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/idea.gif </div>
http://www.expeditionswest.com/21_U500_Camper.jpg</div>


Scott Brady
2001 Land Rover Discovery II
1998 Isuzu Trooper
1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1977 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com
http://www.expeditionswest.com/Roverlaplaya.jpg

[JackSilb]

Scott,

Good move. I almost did it yesterday. Then the family got me to get some movies.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net