Christmas and New Year (~ 2 weeks trip)

[JackSilb]

Christmas and New Year.
Hello,
My company will shutdown operations between Christmas and New Year. This will give me about 2 weeks of vacation.
We can't fly anywhere due to a money savings effort and the "all american dream" of getting a house.
Do you have plans for this time of the year?
Would you be interested in a nice trip?
Lets talk.
-JACK




</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net


Post Edited (JackSilb) : 12/7/2003 7:39:00 AM GMT

[BajaTaco]

OH MAN! If there was any way I could pack up and leave for 2 weeks over christmas, I would BE THERE!! But I will be really low on vacation time by then http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/cry.gif Jack, you should go to Baja. Man, I wish I could do 2 weeks. If you decide to do a long weekend trip, let us know - maybe we could hook up between here and SD somewhere.


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[YukonPeggy]

We might be interested in a holiday trip. Just depends on where and cost.</div>
Bob and I enjoy traveling during the Christmas/New Year time.We drove to Puerto Vallarta one holiday. Stayed at the Mayan resort where we could sit around one day at the pool or beach and then, because we had our truck, we could take another day to explore the jungle. Great time. Anotherholiday,we spenta week in Baja. However, I think I'lllet the boss man decide if we can join youthis year. Does Georgia know your planning a trip for Christmas time?</div>


Peggy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By the time you can make ends meet, they move the ends.

[JackSilb]

Hi Peggy,

You are like me, budget oriented for this year.

> Does Georgia know your planning a trip for Christmas time?
Oh what? Who? ...

Our families are in Brazil. No worries.

Lets start to bounce some ideas. I know 'the man', the trip planner, can put a nice trip together.

Maybe we do a long weekend with Baja and continue our journey. We don't have to use the two weeks. It is just what happen to me to have avaiable. I am not sure why these things don't come around when I can do international travel. AND have money.

-JACK

So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...

[WhiteThaiGer]

BajaTaco said...
OH MAN! If there was any way I could pack up and leave for 2 weeks over christmas, I would BE THERE!! But I will be really low on vacation time by then http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/cry.gif Jack, you should go to Baja. Man, I wish I could do 2 weeks. If you decide to do a long weekend trip, let us know - maybe we could hook up between here and SD somewhere.Yes, a few days after the actual holidays would be nice, we are also short on vacation, already spent over 3 weeks abroad this year....


***************************************
http://www.confluence.org
http://www.usgo.org

[YukonBob]

A two week trip over Christmas. Boy, can I plan one of those.

One of my favorite trips over Christmas was our trip to Puerto Vallarta. The first 19 and 1/2 hours to Mazatlan was a little Brazilian. The rest was very laid back.

We hung out at a fancy resort and explored the jungle and the mountains. I got a brochure of what the local tour companies were offering. The one that caught my eye was a flying trip to an area of the Sierra that wasn't accessable. I decided to drive there. What a great trip.http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/ok-kewl.gif

With two weeks you can see and do so much.



Post Edited (YukonBob) : 9/25/2003 3:11:50 AM GMT

[BajaTaco]

[quote]

YukonBob said...


...We hung out at a fancy resort and explored the jungle and the mountains. I got a brochure of what the local tour companies were offering. The one that caught my eye was a flying trip to an area of the Sierra that wasn't accessable. I decided to drive there. What a great trip.http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/ok-kewl.gif

With two weeks you can see and do so much.

http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/ok-kewl.gif My kinda people!!! http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/ok-kewl.gif

You aren't kidding about seeing and doing so much. I remember one trip I did with Sharon over a 2 day weekend. When we got back, we felt like we had been gone for 4 or 5 days. Southeastern AZ - visited a lake, soaked in a hot spring, camped out,did some birding that evening and the next morning... went looking for another hot spring in the mountains, on foot- didn't find it, but found lots of cool stuff. Then traveled to another area out on the Gila river. On the way, traveled a really neat trail and did some rockhounding.Watched a hawk catch hs lunch and eat it - belowus! We were up on the side of a hill. Got to the river... more hot springs. Slept under the stars... on a naturally heated bed (the beach was like a heating pad!)..more birding the next morning. Visited a mining town, 4x4'd waaaay down into a remote canyon... lots of stream crossings... saw a golden eagle and big horn sheep... old ruins... climbed up a side canyon and found another hot spring (not soak-able though). Gorgeous place - absolutely stunning! On the way back - headed across the desert between Safford and Bowie - another hot spring!Nice soak!!!!! Sand dunes...


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[JackSilb]

> We hung out at a fancy resort and explored the jungle and the mountains.

Jungle? Not a desert!?
That is getting more interesting.

-JACK

So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...

[JackSilb]

Uwe,

What dates would work for you?

-JACK

So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...

[YukonBob]

I'm thinking two weeks to Vera Cruz. How does that sound?

[JackSilb]

Sorry Bob, can you educate me on Vera Cruz?

By the day no need to use the entire two weeks nor use all the time at the same place.
Please tell Mrs. Yukon that I spoke with Georgia. She was surprised that I am thinking already about this trip. She does not know how much planning it takes; 1st to decide where to go right?

Thanks,
- Jack
</div>

So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...

Post Edited (JackSilb) : 9/28/2003 7:35:17 AM GMT

[YukonBob]

The first thing I need to learn how to do is spell it. Veracruz is one word. Learn something new every time I open my mouth.

Here is a link that has lot's of stories about the people, culture and food. (http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/veracruz/veracruzindex.html)

[JackSilb]

That will take a bit to read. But I liked it already.
How long would you say is the drive from San Diego?

'
The Mexican State of Veracruz brings to mind beautiful Gulf of Mexico waters, steamy jungles and mouth-watering ocean-fresh seafood.
'

Thanks,
-JACK

So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...

[JackSilb]

http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/dhughson/dhveracruz.html said...

The State of Veracruz is on the east coast of Mexico and is a long day's drive from McAllen or Laredo Texas. You then find yourself in the land where vanilla is grown, a land full of banana trees, beautiful beach, and a sub-tropical climate.
[/quote]http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/beertoast.gif+ http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/yeah.gif = http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/supercool.gif


Can't stop reading and posting this. Way to go BOB! I am in.

As the 'gringo'' part of the Hughson family, Dean will tell you that this is the Mexico of the old days, where living is still economical for visitors. For instance, in a beach town named Tecolutla (near Ct. Zamora) it is possible to find economical but comfortable rooms for USD $20-30 a night and, for the more adventurous, even $l0-15. Sitting at a restaurant and eating huge shrimp or fresh snapper at prices of USD $5-10 is still possible there. It is fun to be in a beach town where you are the only foreigner and enjoy the same type of vacations as many families from Mexico City.

The Port of Veracruz is an additional treat in the State. When you hear the music and experience the food there you may think you are in Brazil or Trinidad instead of Mexico

Bob, did you plan this part?http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/gottogo.gif
-JACK


</div>

So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...

Post Edited (JackSilb) : 9/28/2003 7:54:23 AM GMT

[JackSilb]

Bob,

You are probably too busy working on your imediate coming trip.
I Mexican friend stopped by today.
She said that it is a goooood drive to Veracruz. But the food and environment will pay back.

-JACK
</div>

So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...

Post Edited (JackSilb) : 9/29/2003 6:41:53 PM GMT

[YukonBob]

Yes, it is a good drive to Veracruz but I am sure it will be worth it. Besides if you have two weeks you need to drive somewhere. Just can't sit around for two weeks. http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/wink.gif </div>
Ok, we've kind of found a place but don't get too excited yet. I'm not sure that I can take two weeks. I know this may sound funny but I could have a problem with time off from work. I have some other plans that I'm going to have to see how they work out. I should have a much better idea of the feasability around the middle of November. I may be stretching myself a little thin. </div>



But that doesn't mean that we can't talk about Veracruz (or other places) and exchange information and ideas. I've painted myself into corners before and had a great time. And like I said, my Christmas trip to Puerto Vallarta two years ago was one of my all time favorites.</div>



There is a problem with going to Mexico over Christmas and I've had it beaten into me time and time again. Everyone in Mexico stays home until December 25th. Then everyone in Mexico goes on holiday. It becomes almost impossible (and has been impossible) to find a room. Going Brazilian leaves us competing for scarce resources. I don't know enough about the area, yet, to do anything but go without reservations. Beach camping is an option but eight or nine days of beach camping with 1800 mile drive to get home can turn a nice family into a bad family. We don't need no bad families.</div>

[JackSilb]

I see your points Bob.
How about we do the following then:

a) Try to check on the availability of rooms. That may kill our trip.
If I am not mistaken, most of people will not have made their reservations yet. Just like in Brazil...

b) Lets talk about a location option B. If options A does not work for many of the reasons we will have to clear before two weeks of the trip, then we trigger location B. Maybe shorter trip.

-JACK

So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...

[YukonPeggy]

Jack said...
b) Lets talk about a location option B. If options A does not work for many of the reasons we will have to clear before two weeks of the trip, then we trigger location B. Maybe shorter trip.

Plan B

Okay - anybody (JACK) up for an exploring trip to Northern California?http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/biggrin.gif On second thought, that might be too much. I understand you need to take your own house http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/smhair.gif

Que tenham umbom dia Jack


Peggy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By the time you can make ends meet, they move the ends.

[JackSilb]

Obrigado,
(thanks)

Mas, para o norte da California vai levar um tempo ate' a proxima viagem
(But, to north cal it will taka bit for the next trip).

Next idea?
-JACK

So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...

[WhiteThaiGer]

Oh man, you guys are already discussing another long trip, I can't go on... I guess I'll check on this thread periodically (not too often, just can't take reading these threads about trips I can't go on...http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/wink.gifto see if there is something for just a few days.



***************************************
http://www.confluence.org
http://www.usgo.org

[JackSilb]

Christmas and New Year. Your family is away. You will have at least one week.
We are looking for ideas ...
-JACK

So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...

[YukonPeggy]

http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/idea.gif
A quick trip into Baja is always nice - Let's go to Bahia de Los Angeles or to Mulejefor kayaking, hiking and explore the hills
or a longer two week trip and drive to Cabos San Lucas. Maybe Baja can give us a destination close to the border (please - not San Felipe - probably the least place I want to spend time in - ever).


One week could take us to Alamos Sonora - the gals would love that place

What's wrong with Anza-Borrego? Four days would give you lots of exploring time.

We could alwaystry Arizona (southern preferrably - warmer) - (4-5 days)

Lets do camino del diablo both ways and visit the pinacate - (4 days) or go to the southeastern edge and explore.

Let's do Uwe's Arizona trip
Okay, I'm tired of travel thoughts - someone else take a turn...http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/idea.gif


Peggy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By the time you can make ends meet, they move the ends.

[JackSilb]

Peggy, this is nice!

BajaCa would be good, not close not far. I am with you on San Felipe. Did once, don't want to go back.

> What's wrong with Anza-Borrego?
Too close to home. Need a travel felling.

> One week could take us to Alamos Sonora - the gals would love that place
The gals liking it is important. I am in.

> We could always try Arizona (southern preferrably - warmer) - (4-5 days)
That is an option. Then BajaTaco can come join us during the weekends.

> Lets do camino del diablo both ways and visit the pinacate - (4 days) or go to the southeastern edge and explore.
Don't know where this place is. I need to check.


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[BajaTaco]

JackSilb said...
Peggy, this is nice!

BajaCa would be good, not close not far. I am with you on San Felipe. Did once, don't want to go back.

... > We could always try Arizona (southern preferrably - warmer) - (4-5 days) That is an option. Then BajaTaco can come join us during the weekends.What is with you guys and SF? Why don't you like it? I know it's a little too close to the border, so it has that "convenience" issue that can affect the atmosphere sometimes...

I like that So AZ suggestion!!

BTW, I am still going through that Veracruz link. Oh man, I am biting my lip...


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[JackSilb]

Baja,

My experience with SF was not very good. Expensive and dirty.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[WhiteThaiGer]

I like those southern AZ and Baja ideas!! Veracruz sounds great, but the time....</div>
Most years we go to NM for xmas if we would do that this year again AZ would be perfect, if our NM relatives decide to spend xmas in CA, Baja would be great. Either way, I think we would make it to one of those smaller trips.</div>
I went only once to SF, but somehow it did not feel like Baja, not the Baja that we experienced since with Bob &amp; Peggy, I much prefer the later. </div>



***************************************
http://www.confluence.org
http://www.usgo.org

[YukonBob]

Jack said...
This will give me about 2 weeks of vacation.Seeing as your vacation might control this trip. What do you have? What's your ideal departure date and when do you want to be home? How many days are we dreaming about?http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/headscratch.gif

[JackSilb]

Good question. Let me check on that for sure.
Then I will edit this posting.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

Lets talk about dates.

12/24 to 1/4, OK?

It is already in the Forum calendar.

Thanks,
-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[dstrass]

Hello everybody,</div>
Just joined the List the and first thing I did is look for upcoming trips. My situation is the same as Jack's as my company shuts down for 2 weeks and me and my family will be happy to go on a 2 weeks adventure at that time frame. If you guys have us, that is.</div>
Jungle sounds like a nice change….http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/hop.gif</div>
Doron.</div>

[JackSilb]

Hi Doron,

This is the idea for this site. People come join and get to the trips.
What vehicle do you drive?
Are you afraid of some 'busch painting' ?
How much experience do you have?

We will plan a trip that will fit the participants.

Thanks for joining. Lets do something fun for the families.
Bob has great experience in Baja. He will find some cool places for us.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[expeditionswest]

Jack &amp; All,</div>
Doron is the friend, and travel partner I have mentioned with the TLC 100. He is an experienced driver, and reliable travel companion.He is also a skilled engineer, which has proven useful on more than one occasion. We have taken many adventures together, from Canyon De Chelly to Mexico. I would go to the ends of the earth with him... </div>
http://www.expeditionswest.com/2003Box-Ovens/images/doron_ovens_lift_jpg.jpg

Here is the details of his vehicle: http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/adventurepartners/Doron/doron100.html

And the man himself. I am 6'1", and he makes me look short! He is perfect for getting stuff off of your roof rack http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/biggrin.gif

http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/adventurepartners/Doron/DSC00453.JPG

Scott Brady
2001 Land Rover Discovery II
1998 Isuzu Trooper
1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1977 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com
http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2003/El_Golfo_2003/thumbnails/DSC00417_JPG.jpg

[dstrass]

Thank you for the kind words, Scott.http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/smhair.gif</div>
Jack and all,</div>
Like Scott mentioned, our family (me wife and 2 children [11,7] ) owns a 1999 Toyota Land Cruiser that I built up for just that purpose and that is mostly used for as an adventure mobile. Since we moved to AZ it has seen some use and abuse and it is quit happy to leave behind bits of clear coat on the desert vegetation. So far it has been a good vehicle doing any and everything we asked it to do, including my disregard to the GVWR, without too much complains.</div>
Currently I am working on an off road camper trailer that I hope will simplify the camp set up and tear down time and effort.</div>
Again like Scott said, besides numerous long weekend trips in the states involving camping in remote areas, we have been to Mexico few times including one week long trip to Baja.</div>
Bottom line: We are ready for longer expedition type adventures.</div>
I hope that answered your questions.</div>
Doron.</div>

[BajaTaco]

Doron - I love your 'cruiser! I can't wait to see it in person. http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/ok-kewl.gif


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[dstrass]

Jack,

I tried to follow this thread from the beginning and I was wandering what killed the main land Mexico trip ideas. Verracruz or Puerto Vallarta…

Just wandering...

Doron.

[JackSilb]

> Currently I am working on an off road camper trailer that I hope will simplify the camp set up and tear down time and effort.

I am with you on this. Somewhere in this Forum I am explaining why I am always late. Just to prepare the family gear and to get people moving again after camping is a challenge. I will follow your progress.
Sorry, about asking about your skills and vehicle, just in case you had a full size truck $50K that was not interested in some scratches. I see you have what I want to get next a TLC. Way to go!

Regarding Veracruz, I guess we are still on for that. I know it is a long drive but I believe it is well worthy. The true is the we have not closed on the destination yet.
We are open for suggestions.

Doron, is Veracruz a good option for you?
By the way, I have 14 (boy), 12(girl), and 2 (boy) years old. They will love to have company in this trip. I am becoming boring for the oldest.


I believe Yukon Bob is still in Baja. I am sure when he gets back he will jump back to the discussion and help us close the plan.


Thanks,
-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[dstrass]

No worries, Jack</div>
You have to ask these types of questions. Incompatibility in group member can ruin a potentially excellent trip. And everybody knows that we don’t have too much time to waste on a bum vacation.</div>
<st1:State><st1:place>Veracruz is a real option for me. Like I said before, Rainforest or subtropical climate would be a nice change to the desert. It also elevates the adventure factor. I don’t think that the long drive is a problem. It’s part of the experience and there are ways to alleviate the boredom. We just need to make sure that the play time to drive time ratio is acceptable.</div>
As far as the trailer, we needed to shorten the time of camp set-up and tare-down in addition for the need to ease up on the GVWR of the truck. The few Australian and South African off road trailers that are marketed in the <st1:country-region><st1:place>US are not cutting it for us. They are either too large/heavy or can’t accommodate 4 people and all are too expensive. So… I decided to make my own. It uses aluminum frame and sheet metal and a Colman tent that I butchered. With 235/75-15 tires and (useless) rubber torsion suspension it came out at 600 lb. I managed to load 600 lb on it. 1200 lb of trailer behind you in the real rough stuff is still too much so I need to find a way to limit it to 1000 lb. The concept works well for us. I just need to use more robust hardware and come up with new suspension. Trailing arms or asymmetric cross arms haven’t decided yet. When I am done with this prototype I might make a couple units and try to market them but this is for another time/place.</div>
Doron.</div>
I don’t know how you stuff 3 children and their supply into a 4runner. You need to share the secret with me someday.</div>

[JackSilb]

> I don’t know how you stuff 3 children and their supply into a 4runner. You need to share the secret with me someday.

+ two large dogs ...

No secret, it is a pain! That is why I got the OK from the boss to get a TLC, 'AFTER THE HOUSE!!'

I carry a lot on the roof rack. If it was not sad, it would be funny.
I try to keep all the large volumes & low weight parts on the top. Basically sleeping gear and clothes.
On the back goes the refrigerator and tools. When we take the dogs, then less tools and no refrigerator.

I really want to check out your TLC.

The more we talk about Vera Cruz the more I want to go.
I am from a tropical country. After a while I miss the green and rain. It is time to get to see some of this again.

Where is Bob that don't jump in here?

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[dstrass]

Jack,

2 dogs hey? I hope these dogs like cats. Not as meal, that is. We have a cat that travels with us. He can handle dogs as long as they are not too aggressive.

Related to Vera Cruz, I feel the same. Since the Copper Canyon trip never happened this year, this will help to this year’s sense of accomplishment. And like you, it could be a wonderful change to the arid tracks we usually been using in our travels.

I will try to make it to the Zafari2003 this weekend so maybe you will get to check out the truck. It all depends on my part coming in on Friday. I am planning on going with Scott B. At any rate, where and when will I be able to find you on Saturday and Sunday?

Doron.

[JackSilb]

Doron,

The dogs are great. Shadow does have a thing going toward AnitaS and SteveS.
But I will not take them to this trip. Now, we minimize traveling with them in long trips like this. We need the ROOM. Besides you have the cross boarding issue.


We will be in the Zafari2003 camping Saturday end of the day.
Don't have any plans for Sunday.

Do you have a VHF radio? How about Scott?
If not, we will get the bug going with you two. When you have a chance please read a couple of posting about VHF radios in this Forum.

Uwe, just got here.
http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/gottogo.gif
-JACK
</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[YukonBob]

Jack said...
The more we talk about Vera Cruz the more I want to go.
I am from a tropical country. After a while I miss the green and rain. It is time to get to see some of this again.

Where is Bob that don't jump in here?
Veracruz sounds like a great trip for twelve days. If I had twelve days it's probably where I would go. Unfortunately, I think I'm going to have to work over the holidays. I was trying to suggest some place that you can travel over Christmas. I'd be very jealous if you went to Veracruz and I didn't get to go.http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/chairfall.gif

I can suggest some other places but I'll be jealous about those also.

[JackSilb]

OK time for Plan B.

I met Doron and Scott this weekend. They fit well on the kind of trips we like to do. A mix of technical and visual.
Scott, Uwe, and Baja can not go for more than a week.

How about we propose a trip for a week to start with, lets say part I. Then Doron, I, and others that can continue go for the part II of the trip.

Thanks,
-JACK

p.s. For combined present of birthday, Hanuka, and Christmas you can get me one or more of the followings:
* For the 4Runner
- Supercharger
- Front Locker diff
- Snorkel
- LCD monitor of 9~10" SVGA

Or, just get me the so expected TLC 1997 with lockers on the front and back, OME suspension all around it.
</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net


Post Edited (JackSilb) : 11/4/2003 10:36:38 PM GMT

[dstrass]

Well Jack,

You got to make sure that this is what you want. One I buy an item on the list, I will not be able to return it. And since I don’t have a 4runner, I will not be able to use it.

As far as the trip concerned, what you are proposing sound like a good compromise.

Doron.

BTW; thanks for a nice weekend.

[JackSilb]

No worries on the return. That is what EBAY is here for. I can always make some money after the fact.

I also enjoyed the weekend very much. You daughter is probably complaining about all the technical discussions we had.



How about we start to talk about locations for Part I?

Maybe a day drive (8 ~ 12 hours) max to get there. Where does this take us?. Good food, some history, things for the companions to do, fire permitted, and not very cold.

Any places any of you guys or girls want to visit, but never had the time and company to make it? Places that you want to visit again?
Ideally, we will lock in the location by the end of this week.

Thanks,
-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[YukonBob]

What are the dates for part one?

[BajaTaco]

This trip is a big MAYBE for me (unfortunately). Man, I would LOVE to go to Veracruz. Oh well. It looks like Christmas is on a Thursday, and so is New Year's day of course. So there is a slim chance that my company will "shut down" for the week in between the 25th and the 1st.


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[JackSilb]

YukonBob said...
What are the dates for part one?


I am checking the dates.</o:p>
I can leave on 12/20 (Saturday) and Return on 1/4 (Sunday).</o:p>
This is a two weeks triphttp://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/jumpin.gif . Lets call it the Long version.</o:p>
</o:p>
The one week and two weeksare not sequential. That is, we don't have one week than one more week. So the Part I and II I proposed earlier needs to become Short and Long trips.
</o:p>
Long ~ 12/20 to 1/4
Short I ~ 12/24 to 1/4
Short II ~ 12/24 to 12/28
Short III ~ 12/31 to 1/4
[quote]I hope I am making sense here.
[quote]-JACK
[quote]
</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[YukonBob]

You are making perfect sense. I don't think I've ever said that beforehttp://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/biggrin.gif .</div>
If you've got two weeks, you shouldn't worry about the rest of us poor slobs. Go for it.</div>

[YukonPeggy]

Hi Jack</div>
Christmas in Alamos Sonora Mexicohttp://www.alamosmexico.com/ would be fun. Gals could relax intown and you road dudes could play all day!Backroads, kayaking, rivers - lots of history (spas for the ladies). It's a day's drive from Tucson. Only problem I see is it may be a little more $$ then folks may want to spend this time of year.</div>



"Do not worry about whether or not the sun willrise. Just be prepared to enjoy it."</div>

[dstrass]

Checked it out. Not a bad idea. Good compromise...
Doron.

[AlWalter]

Boy, that's real tempting. I sure enjoyed that area when I was there & have wanted to go back. Hmmmm.

[BajaTaco]

Oooooh! that looks nice!


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[WhiteThaiGer]

I believe I've been there.Nice place.</div>
Doron, be careful, don't check the maps to the east of this place. Or at least have a big towel for the tears that may start running uncontrolled...http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/cry.gif</div>


***************************************
http://www.confluence.org
http://www.usgo.org

[JackSilb]

YukonPeggy said...

Hi Jack
Christmas in Alamos Sonora Mexicohttp://www.alamosmexico.com/ would be fun. Gals could relax intown and you road dudes could play all day!Backroads, kayaking, rivers - lots of history (spas for the ladies). It's a day's drive from Tucson. Only problem I see is it may be a little more $$ then folks may want to spend this time of year.
I liked it. How do you find out these things?
Will the people from Short I, II and III be OK with this trip?
Thank you!

-JACK

</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net


Post Edited (JackSilb) : 11/7/2003 3:34:07 AM GMT

[JackSilb]

YukonBob said...

You are making perfect sense. I don't think I've ever said that beforehttp://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/biggrin.gif .
If you've got two weeks, you shouldn't worry about the rest of us poor slobs. Go for it.
http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/yeah.gif At least one time, people understand the first time.

-JACK



So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

Would we be able to take a pick at copper canyon then?


-JACK





</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[WhiteThaiGer]

[quote]

JackSilb said...

Would we be able to take a pick at copper canyon then?
What is with you today, Jack?http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/nono.gif First you ruin the game about the quote, then you mention the unmentionable destination knowing that there are some people here who are still grieving about a trip that did not happen. Again: http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/smashfreakb.gif


***************************************
http://www.confluence.org
http://www.usgo.org

[BajaTaco]

http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/baja_rofl.gif


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[dstrass]

That’s OK. I promise to do better. You can talk about Copper canyon now. Besides, I have already checked out the map and noticed what is south east to Alamos. Half a day drive, I might add. Allow me, as a defense mechanism, not to get excited.

[JackSilb]

WhiteThaiGer said...

[quote]

JackSilb said...

Would we be able to take a pick at copper canyon then?
What is with you today, Jack?http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/nono.gif First you ruin the game about the quote, then you mention the unmentionable destination knowing that there are some people here who are still grieving about a trip that did not happen. Again: http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/smashfreakb.gif
</div>http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/joker1.gif http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/cry.gif
This time was not intentional...
-JACK



So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

Doron said...
That’s OK. I promise to do better. You can talk about Copper canyon now. Besides, I have already checked out the map and noticed what is south east to Alamos. Half a day drive, I might add. Allow me, as a defense mechanism, not to get excited.Doron,

I guess our trip is taking form.
I would say we should start booking the hotel/motel/camping spot.
a) It will lock the destination before somone come with another idea.
b) Reduce the chances of not finding a place to stay.

I am assuming that most of people will be up for this location since it is just a day drive.http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/smhair.gif now or http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/yousuck.gif

Thanks,
-JACK
p.s. I am planning to show my wife the pictures of the best hotel, even if we will go camping. After all, camping you can get as many stars as you want, not just 5.

</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net


Post Edited (JackSilb) : 11/8/2003 2:16:31 AM GMT

[YukonBob]

I was checking out that link that Peggy had posted about Alamos. The motorcycle trips offered by Rancho Las Mercedes (http://www.rancholasmercedes.com)caught my eye. They will give you an idea of some the mileage and travel times towards Copper Canyon. They take three days to get to Cerocahui which is jumping off spot to the first canyon, Urique The loop they make is a nice six day trip.

I don't think we'll be able to particpate in the trip but it's a great destination. As the trip develops, we may have some suggestions for you.

And it's a long days drive from Alamos to Tucson. Going south you need to add time for border formalities. I was surprised to see a new toll road that completely bypasses Nogales is now a option. That speeds things up. Doing it Brazilian, you could leave San Diego about 6 PM at night and be in Alamos10 AM the next day



Post Edited (YukonBob) : 11/8/2003 5:31:27 AM GMT

[JackSilb]

> Doing it Brazilian, you could leave San Diego about 6 PM at night and be in Alamos 10 AM the next day

Don't know about driving at night in Mexico on roads that I don't know. Even in Brazil it would be a bit tricky.
I am not sure what to plan on this trip besides getting there and planing the next days. If not, people will remove my citizenship due to too much planning outside work.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

Bob,

I ordered the map atlas you recomended. Once I get it, I can start to post some distances and propose some explorations.
Since you are being so kind, and I know you have one map or two, ..., (dozens) why don't you give us some ideas.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

Do we need visas or any other permit such as tourist card?

Last time I went to San Felipe, I had to pay for all the members in the car. It took me a while in San Diego to get these.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[YukonBob]

Jack said...
Do we need visas or any other permit such as tourist card?

Last time I went to San Felipe, I had to pay for all the members in the car. It took me a while in San Diego to get these.
Yes, you'll needtourist cardsfor everyone at $20.00 each. You'll need an importation permit for the car at $30. All of it can be taken care of when you cross the border or you could take care of it in advance in Tijuana.

[YukonBob]

Jack said...
I ordered the map atlas you recomended. Once I get it, I can start to post some distances and propose some explorations.
Since you are being so kind, and I know you have one map or two, ..., (dozens) why don't you give us some ideas.
Alamos is a colonial Spanish town and so is El Fuerte in Sinaloa. Their is a dirt road from Alamos to El Fuerte that losely follows the old road. All the riches removed from the mines near Alamos would have traveled this road. El Fuerte is worth a visit. El Fuerte is on the train route through Copper Canyon so a two day train trip would be a possibility.

There is fishing in the Rio El Cuchijaqui not too far from Alamos.

You could head north to San Bernardo and the east to Chinipas. I'm not sure how longthe roundtrip would take you but Harry could tell you.

A guy in Alamos offers float trips on the Rio Mayo.

Aduana is an old mining center with a gourmet restaurant.

That should get you thinking.http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/yeah.gif

[JackSilb]

This is good.
Once I get my maps I will be able to think about this better.

Who is really considering coming and for how long / dates.

Time to start planning the details.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[BajaTaco]

I don't think you can count on us for this trip. You know I would love to go, but I don't think we can make it.


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[WhiteThaiGer]

We are really considering this trip. A week to 10 days seems possible. There is some uncertainty about the starting date, i.e. if we canmake it on the 24th.



***************************************
http://www.confluence.org
http://www.usgo.org

[JackSilb]

Baja, let see if by any chance will change with you by then.
Uwe, it will be great if you can come. 10 days will be fine.
Doron, Al, Scott are you guys in? If so, do you have the dates to share with us.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[CaptainSteve]

Hello everyone
Looked at your planning (all three pages of it) and it looks like a great trip. We stayed in Alamos on Harry's Copper Canyon trip and loved it. I have 8 vacation days left so all of your ideas will work for us. We will keep looking and decide after Thanksgiving. Another group we follow are going to Bahia De Los Angeles, but 7 days in one place would drive us both crazy, and we don't like four wheeling in Baja alone,,,, so who knows where we will be. We will keep watching your plans as they develop.... and hope they work out for us as well.
Captain Steve and Edie

[YukonBob]

Here is a link to Jennifer and David Mackay's (http://www.solipaso.com/)website. They live in Alamos and offer tours and rooms to rent. Jennifer speaks Portuguese so there won't be a language problem.

Peggy has been in contact with David and they only have rooms for the 24th, 25th, and 26th. But they are a valuable resource and they offer different types of tours including a float trip on the Rio Mayo.

We first met them five or six years ago. We had just come out of the Sierra and Peggy needed a massage. Jennifer put her back together. We stayed at their place a couple of years ago at Christmas but they were out of town so we didn't get to renew our relationship. They probably don't remember us now but Davidmight remember my computer in the Yukon and the moving maps.

Peggy has invited David to the forum so he may show up here.



Post Edited (YukonBob) : 11/11/2003 6:52:14 AM GMT

[BajaTaco]

Captain Steve - cool avatar! Looks like a 4wd in the background, with the rear open for easy access to the comforts of camp, the "captain" of the land ship... relaxing after a hard day of adventure... he is either listening to a fellow traveler spin a humorous tale, or he is watching the landscape with admiration... and yes, there is a beautiful backdrop of smooth canyon wall, or rock formation making the ambiance of the camp complete. Am I close?


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[JackSilb]

CaptainSteve said...
Hello everyone
Looked at your planning (all three pages of it) and it looks like a great trip. We stayed in Alamos on Harry's Copper Canyon trip and loved it. I have 8 vacation days left so all of your ideas will work for us. We will keep looking and decide after Thanksgiving. Another group we follow are going to Bahia De Los Angeles, but 7 days in one place would drive us both crazy, and we don't like four wheeling in Baja alone,,,, so who knows where we will be. We will keep watching your plans as they develop.... and hope they work out for us as well.
Captain Steve and Edie

Finally, It took one extra phone call for this couple to show up here.</div>
Captain Steve, we are open for suggestions on how to use the days.</div>
My maps should arrive by the end of this week. Then I may propose some activities.</div>
I am not sure where Doron is. He is too quiet. He is on of the main interested party here.</div>
</o:p></div>
-JACK</div>
</o:p></div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

Bob,

Thanks for the link.
I will send them a note and ask for suggestions on where we can stay.
I am sure we will have a mix of hotel and camping people.
I personally, would like to hit a hotel after a couple of days.We have aboy that uses diapers, things start to get smelly after a while. Besides that, this will exponentially increase the wife satisfaction with the trip.

-Jack
</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net


Post Edited (JackSilb) : 11/12/2003 10:38:52 PM GMT

[CaptainSteve]

Hi again, and Jack you just missed me again. When you called I was being paid by Sprint to haul a generator up to a cell site on a hill top near Big Bear. No one else wanted the job, can you imagine, getting paid to 4x4 and everyone in awe of my getting the site back on air. The fire had a big effect on our network, though 'we' didn't have any fire damage directly. All the sites in our area (San Bernardino and Riverside Counties) were back up in less than 4 days (a lot of four wheel'n).
As for the Christmas trip, a little mixing of camping and hoteling sounds great to us. Throw in a river trip and some of Copper Canyon and you can count us in. We have mutual friends that have a number of ranches in the El Fuerte area and I will talk to them as to what else we might find interesting to do in the area. If reservations are only available the 24th - 26th I would say that would be the week we need to block out and plan on camping the rest of the time.

[CaptainSteve]

Baja Taco,
I thought I would tell a little about our (my) avatar. Jack got it off another trip photo we took with a group to Anza Borego last spring. We were having lunch in Sandstone Canyon after doing the Squeeze and Hart Attack Hill. I look tired and satified, and I was. It was a great weekend in the desert. We had a large group of people of every experience level and every type of vehicle (they just had to be narrow). Our Jeep fit into the middle of the group, as our 93 Jeep Gran Cherokee is pretty stock. 2' (cheep) lift, 31x10.5 BFG's, Rancho 9000's, large air compressor (with larger horns) and too many electronics (Ham rig, GPS, laptop etc.).
We can honestly say we have done Baja, though we still love it. We also have done a lot of the mainland (and a trip from hell to the Sonora Desert), including verticle caving (between Varacruz and Mexico City) in a rain forest, and most of the towns and cities on the coast, all the way down to Hualtuco.
They call me Captain Steve because of the 48' sailboat I used to live on but we now keep in Long Beach.

[BajaTaco]

Ahhh... there is a story for every picture. Yours is a good one. Yea, thanks to this crew, I was able to visit Sandstone canyon and heart-attack hillin January of this year. What a great area.

You have quite the resume! I would really like to meet you (and your wife) sometime and hear some stories.




http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[JackSilb]

> Throw in a river trip and some of Copper Canyon and you can count us in.

Now we are talking. I had that in mind too.
These will be in our plan then.

> If reservations are only available the 24th - 26th I would say that would be the week we
> need to block out and plan on camping the rest of the time.

I sent an e-mail to the folks that Bob mentioned asking about rooms, ~ 4 . I asked them to stop by the Forum too.

-JACK
</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

> You have quite the resume! I would really like to meet you (and your wife) sometime and hear some stories.

Baja, remember the guy I mentioned that had the black pipes on the roof rack using them as a water container (hot)?
CaptainSteve is the man.

Steve and his wife (Edie) fit right in this group. Good adventures, don't complain about change on plans (adaptation), have great stories for camp fire. Wait until he talks about his blown Jeep. What happened, how he got the insurance to pay, and what he explained the dealer. Moreover, they bring wine and good food.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[BajaTaco]

Cool - pour me a glass of wine http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/biggrin.gif


http://www.bajataco.com
Vibram or BFG - getting there on rubber and seeing it all!

[CaptainSteve]

I keep forgetting about the roof rack,,, great to have in Baja. Edies famous for the food she brings, not the wine. Beer, preferably Pacifico.
What is the name of the place that has the rooms? I can't remember the names of the places we have stayed in Alamos but if you could give us the link we will look at their site. How come you are not on in the evening,,, too many mouths to feed?
Captain Steve _/)

[JackSilb]

Bob said...

Here is a link to Jennifer and David Mackay's (http://www.solipaso.com/)website. They live in Alamos and offer tours and rooms to rent. Jennifer speaks Portuguese so there won't be a language problem.

Peggy has been in contact with David and they only have rooms for the 24th, 25th, and 26th. But they are a valuable resource and they offer different types of tours including a float trip on the Rio Mayo.

We first met them five or six years ago. We had just come out of the Sierra and Peggy needed a massage. Jennifer put her back together. We stayed at their place a couple of years ago at Christmas but they were out of town so we didn't get to renew our relationship. They probably don't remember us now but Davidmight remember my computer in the Yukon and the moving maps.

Peggy has invited David to the forum so he may show up here.


<!-- Edit -->
Post Edited (YukonBob) : 11/11/2003 6:52:14 AM GMT[/quote]


CaptainSteve said...
I keep forgetting about the roof rack,,, great to have in Baja. Edies famous for the food she brings, not the wine. Beer, preferably Pacifico.
What is the name of the place that has the rooms? I can't remember the names of the places we have stayed in Alamos but if you could give us the link we will look at their site. How come you are not on in the evening,,, too many mouths to feed?
Captain Steve _/)
CaptainSteve, the link Bob gave us is http://www.solipaso.com/
I sent them an e-mail but no replies so far.
-JACK


</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

Our Guest House: The most historic building in Alamos

http://www.solipaso.com/images/Back%20wooden%20grate.jpg
We welcome you to come and stay with us here in Alamos. Our elegant and historic guest house, La Ciudadela, is centrally located and the perfect place to stay while exploring the region. La Ciudadela is also the home of Solipaso and our family. We are proud to be able to open our doors to you and help make your stay in Alamos pleasant and comfortable.
Click here to request a reservation (http://www.solipaso.com/reservationRequest.php?t=13&amp;d=09-01-02&amp;sid=18)
</div>



La Ciudadela

http://www.solipaso.com/images/portal1.jpgSituated in the heart of colonial Alamos, La Ciudadela (Citadel) was originally constructed as a garrison for Spanish troops in the 1680's. Later, the building housed Alamos' first jail and was the secure location for thousands of tons of silver mined in the nearby town of Aduana. Eventually, this military building was turned into a private residence by a prominent silver baron. It is considered to be Alamos' most historic building and it occupies an entire city block just off the central plaza. As you walk off the street and into the central courtyard, it feels as though you have walked into another world. Within the arched portals are comfortable sitting areas and an outdoor fire place. The courtyard opens onto lush gardens fountains and tropical trees. La Ciudadela consists of 5 guest rooms, a living room, dining room, kitchen, large portals, courtyards and lush gardens. We have strived to make the house comfortable and warm, with the modern conveniences, without sacrificing the ambiance of this very historic building. It is a private and peaceful place where you can relax, retreat and make yourself at home.
</div>



The specifics on each room:

http://www.solipaso.com/images/casita%20table%20and%20bed.jpg#1- 1 Queen bed and 1 single bed with a private bathroom with a bathtub. $75 per night
#2- 1 Queen bed and a private bathroom with bathtub ( and a fireplace in the bathroom). $75 per night
#3- 1 Queen bed and a private bathroom with a shower. $75 per night
#4- 2 Full beds. It shares the bath with room #3. It is effectively a suite, perfect for a family or close group of friends. (#4 is not rented without renting #3) $125 per night
</div>





http://www.solipaso.com/images/casita%20corner.jpgLa Casita- It is its own little house with a private courtyard, its own kitchen, bathroom and living/sleeping room with a seating area and a queen bed and twin bed. The high ceilings and beautifully comfortable equipale furniture make this Casita truly grand. A very private place within the walls of La Ciudadela. $90 per night.
The 'Dungeon'- A very unique guestroom situated underneath the main part of the house. Its name suggests what it once was...Now, it's a neat little room with low beamed ceilings, a fireplace, private bathroom and a twin bed and a fullsize bed. This room has a charm all its own. $40 per night.</div>



Food and Catering

http://www.solipaso.com/images/diningroom.jpgWe both share a love of cooking and enjoy preparing excellent meals for our guests. Although not included in the room price, we are happy to provide breakfasts by prior arrangement. Breakfasts consist of platters of fresh fruit and fresh-squeezed juice, home-baked breads, homemade granola, eggs and always excellent coffee (imported from our family roasting business).
We also can prepare lunches and dinners for groups of four or more people. We are professionals at creating unique and delicious meals for all occasions. Whether it be pack lunches for trips into the back country, a relaxed lunch in the shade of the portal or unique and well-prepared dinners in our dining room. We can also arrange for entertainment by talented local musicians for your listening pleasure before or after your dinner. Much of our produce is organically grown in our own vegetable garden, which gives us the opportunity to prepare much more than is often expected in Mexico. Everything that we prepare in our kitchen is made from scratch, with the finest ingredients and with our high attention to detail.
Another aspect of our food service is catering. Between the two of us we have 30 combined years of experience catering big and small events. We have held weddings, big New Years parties and multi-day group events at our location as well as at off-site locations. La Ciudadela is a beautiful place to hold a party and we can help to arrange and organize all aspects of an event. Consider it for your next party, wedding, tour or conference. We would be glad to help.
</div>



About the rooms:

http://www.solipaso.com/images/bath%20#1.jpgAll of the well-appointed guest rooms at La Ciudadela have high beamed ceilings, wooden shuttered windows that look out onto the streets below, doors that open onto the plant-filled courtyard and Mexican style fireplaces. Each room is furnished with antiques, comfortable beds with fine linens and decorated with local crafts. The thick adobe walls of the house keep the heat in during the chillier winter months and keep the rooms naturally cool during the hotter months. Along with our wonderful staff, we keep the entire house clean and are constantly maintaining and caring for this beautiful, old building. We live on the premises and care for it as our home.
Weekly rates, as well as rates for the entire guesthouse, are available upon request. Although our season is September through May, rooms may also be available by prior arrangement in the summer months at reduced rates. Contact us for more information.
</div>



Payment Information (http://www.solipaso.com/payment.html)


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So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

CaptainSteve said...
I keep forgetting about the roof rack,,, great to have in Baja. Edies famous for the food she brings, not the wine. Beer, preferably Pacifico.
What is the name of the place that has the rooms? I can't remember the names of the places we have stayed in Alamos but if you could give us the link we will look at their site. How come you are not on in the evening,,, too many mouths to feed?
Captain Steve _/)
> How come you are not on in the evening,,, too many mouths to feed?
In where? I have been sticking around work until late. Tuesdays and Wednesdays I am taking some classes to better communicate with the BioTech folks.

I am glad you are really considering making this trip.

-JACK


</div>



So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[expeditionswest]

Jack,

Do you have a finalized schedule? I am not so worried about where we will go, but when. I might be able to swing the time off (I will know for sure by Tuesday of next week). Thanks for the help. I really, really hope to make it... That area sounds very cool.http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Scott

Scott Brady
2001 Land Rover Discovery II
1998 Isuzu Trooper
1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1977 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com
http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2003/El_Golfo_2003/thumbnails/DSC00417_JPG.jpg

[JackSilb]

Doron said...
Doron said...
Jack,
Notionally, my family and I are off between 12/15/03 and 1/4/04. Currently I don’t have time to update myself as to the plans of the trip you are trying to put together but after the end of next week I will be able to pay more attention to it and put my 5 cents worth.
Doron.
I would say that we should plan to start our trip on 12/20 (Saturday) then. Would that work for you?

I got a reply from the hotel in Alamos.
I would like to stay there a base camp. Explore then come back to recharge food, water showers, etc.

Thanks,
-JACK
</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

Scott Brady said...
Jack,

Do you have a finalized schedule? I am not so worried about where we will go, but when. I might be able to swing the time off (I will know for sure by Tuesday of next week). Thanks for the help. I really, really hope to make it... That area sounds very cool.http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Scott
Nice scott!
If we can really make this trip it will be great!
Lets get more serious about dates then.



Jack said...

Long ~ 12/20 to 1/4
Short I ~ 12/24 to 1/4
Short II ~ 12/24 to 12/28
Short III ~ 12/31 to 1/4
Here are the things to do: (still don't have my maps. I will get them today or tomorrow)
a) Alamo: Culture, Food, Water, Showers, SPA and wife stuff.
b) 4x4 around Alamo: TBD
c) Boat Ride: need dates
d) Copper Canyon: need dates

I believe that Doron and I are on for the Long version. 12/20 to 1/4. Well, really 1/3 so I can get back home on 1/4. We can make a~d.
We should leave [d] for 12/28 to 1/3. That way people from Short II and Short III can join us. The Short II people meet us in Alamo, take a break then we all go to [D]. The Short III folks would meet us direct at Copper Canyon, ~ 12/31.
Uwe, what was that nice hotel you stayed in Copper Canyon? Do you have their contact information?
This was version 0.01. Lets work on it until the release of V1.0.
Thanks,
-JACK
</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net


Post Edited (JackSilb) : 11/13/2003 8:30:59 PM GMT

[JackSilb]

Here is Version 0.02 - Please send ideas.

12/20 - Drive to a meeting point. Take care of paperwork.
12/21 - Drive to Alamo
12/22~27 - Explore around Alamo, boat ride, etc. Lets detail this.
12/28 - Drive to Copper Canyon
12/29~1/2 - Explore around Copper Canyon. Lets detail this.
1/3~4 - Drive home. Maybe some interesting stops in the way.

-JACK

</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net


Post Edited (JackSilb) : 11/14/2003 1:16:44 AM GMT

[expeditionswest]

Jack,

OOOOOH Man!, I like the itinerary. I could leave the 26th, and stay through the 3rd. As soon as I get confirmation I will let you know. Do you have any websites that show the area/town?

I have got to make this work...

Scott Brady
2001 Land Rover Discovery II
1998 Isuzu Trooper
1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1977 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com
http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2003/El_Golfo_2003/thumbnails/DSC00417_JPG.jpg

[JackSilb]

> Do you have any websites that show the area/town?



Bob said...


Here is a link to Jennifer and David Mackay's (http://www.solipaso.com/)website. They live in Alamos and offer tours and rooms to rent. Jennifer speaks Portuguese so there won't be a language problem.








[quote]

YukonPeggy said...

Hi Jack
Christmas in Alamos Sonora Mexicohttp://www.alamosmexico.com/ would be fun. Gals could relax intown and you road dudes could play all day!Backroads, kayaking, rivers - lots of history (spas for the ladies). It's a day's drive from Tucson. Only problem I see is it may be a little more $$ then folks may want to spend this time of year.




"Do not worry about whether or not the sun willrise. Just be prepared to enjoy it."

I like the ones above.
-Jack



</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net


Post Edited (JackSilb) : 11/14/2003 1:12:30 AM GMT

[WhiteThaiGer]

JackSilb said...

Uwe, what was that nice hotel you stayed in Copper Canyon? Do you have their contact information?
[quote]Okay, time for me to provide some info and comments...http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/cool.gif
[quote]I don't have contact info for the hotels we stayed in as it was all arranged for us. I reconstructed the names with the help of the guide book 'Northern Mexico Handbook'('98 edition). I also scanned some pictures, just to give everyone a little taste. Links are in the text below.
Creel - Best Western Lodge
El Tejaban - Hotel El Tejaban.No doubt our favorite on the trip!!(Pic1 (http://www.rxtx.com:8085/4wdtrips/photogallery/details.php?image_id=896), Pic2 (http://www.rxtx.com:8085/4wdtrips/photogallery/details.php?image_id=894), Pic3 (http://www.rxtx.com:8085/4wdtrips/photogallery/details.php?image_id=898),their fireplace (http://www.rxtx.com:8085/4wdtrips/photogallery/details.php?image_id=903))
Divisadero - Hotel Divisadero Barrancas (Pic (http://www.rxtx.com:8085/4wdtrips/photogallery/details.php?image_id=893))
Cerocahui - Paraiso del Oso Lodge
Temoris - ?
Alamos - Motel Acosta Rancho

Coming from Alamos we would have to cross the Rio Chinipas (if that's the name) at Chinipas. The guide book says it's a 6h drive under good conditions, I don't think it took us quite that long. The river was very shallow in April when we went, I don't know the conditions in winter. Here are some pics of our crossing: Stock Cherokee crossing river (http://www.rxtx.com:8085/4wdtrips/photogallery/details.php?image_id=890), Trip leader being towed through river (http://www.rxtx.com:8085/4wdtrips/photogallery/details.php?image_id=889)

This is my favorite car picture (http://www.rxtx.com:8085/4wdtrips/photogallery/details.php?image_id=891)of the trip. Harry's truck was disabled, the tow-vehicle had an engine fire and the little 4Runner pulled them (still connected) off the road.http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/supercool.gif

View from the hotel at Divisadero (http://www.rxtx.com:8085/4wdtrips/photogallery/details.php?image_id=892)

Got to have one of these (http://www.rxtx.com:8085/4wdtrips/photogallery/details.php?image_id=895)at a canyon rim

Morning at Tejaban (http://www.rxtx.com:8085/4wdtrips/photogallery/details.php?image_id=897)

View down to Urique (http://www.rxtx.com:8085/4wdtrips/photogallery/details.php?image_id=899)(I think)

Some other view somewhere (http://www.rxtx.com:8085/4wdtrips/photogallery/details.php?image_id=900)

and another one (http://www.rxtx.com:8085/4wdtrips/photogallery/details.php?image_id=900)

Just one more... (http://www.rxtx.com:8085/4wdtrips/photogallery/details.php?image_id=902)
</div>


***************************************
http://www.confluence.org
http://www.usgo.org


Post Edited (WhiteThaiGer) : 11/16/2003 7:28:17 AM GMT

[JackSilb]

Bob,

I got my map(s). It is not detailed enough for any useful navigation around Alamos. I got the Mexico atlas .
Any suggestions on where I can get maps for that area for navigation / exploration?
http://media.maps.com/magellan/Images/gr_mex_at_c.jpg
Thanks,
-JACK
</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

Uwe,

Way cool pics.
Thanks for sharing them with us!

Are you going to be able to make to Alamos? For 10 days maybe?

Thanks,
-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[WhiteThaiGer]

JackSilb said...
Are you going to be able to make to Alamos? For 10 days maybe?
I hope so. I might be able to do a schedule like Scott's.


***************************************
http://www.confluence.org
http://www.usgo.org

[YukonBob]

Jack said...


I got my map(s). It is not detailed enough for any useful navigation around Alamos. I got the Mexico atlas .

Are you talking about navigation in the town of Alamos?

[JackSilb]

Nop, doing 4WD trips around the Alamos area and Copper Cayon.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[YukonBob]

Jack said...
I got my map(s). It is not detailed enough for any useful navigation around Alamos. I got the Mexico atlas .

I don't know of a better map, although it is certainly not accurate,complete or current.It's what I use to help me make important decisions. You might want to reconsider what you are trying to accomplish. This is not a land to take lightly or easy to navigate. </div>

[JackSilb]

YukonBob said...





Jack said...
I got my map(s). It is not detailed enough for any useful navigation around Alamos. I got the Mexico atlas .

I don't know of a better map, although it is certainly not accurate,complete or current.It's what I use to help me make important decisions. You might want to reconsider what you are trying to accomplish. This is not a land to take lightly or easy to navigate. Bob,

Now you tell me that? We will need some kind of map to exlore that area.
Maybe the locals will be able to give us something. Well, maybe they will have just verbal directions huh.
I did find a site with better maps. Let me try to get it for you to judge.
-JACK



So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

Folks,

We need to get moving on the reservations.
If the plan is on as I posted above, I am getting the Casita from 12/21 to 12/27.

PLEASE http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/confused.gif reply with your plans. If we decide to camp a couple days while in Alamos we can save $$.
Thanks,
-JACK





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Solipaso
Sent: Tue 11/18/2003 3:24 PM
To: Jack Silberman
Subject: RE: Group trip to Alamos


Hi Jack,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
So, to answer your questions...We still have a few rooms available 12/24, 25, 26, 27 and 28. Which dates work for you? And how many rooms would you like for your group. We have the Casita which you could use. We also have a room with a queen and a twin at $75 and the suite we'd mentioned which has a queen in one room and two fulls in another and they share a bath. It rents for $125. However, it can also be rented as a room with just the queen and we rent it for $75. Is that clear?!
We have a place we use for overflow that is a bit more expensive than our place but is very nice and comfortable. There are also places to stay that are less expensive that we don't work with as much but could point people in the right direction.
Camping can be done a short distance from town at Rancho Acosta.
As far as the activities go...the river trip is best done earlier during the dates I've mentioned for a few reasons so if you want to try to do it I'd say do it on 12/26. We have a 4 person minimum to run the trip. There is plenty of exploring to be done around Alamos both 4x4 and otherwise.
Let us know about the dates. We are getting lots of inquiries for rooms during that time and will fill up soon.
All for now.
Jen Mackay

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Silberman [mailto:jack@silbermans.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 12:48 PM
To: Solipaso; Bob Steichen
Cc: Jack Silberman
Subject: RE: Group trip to Alamos


Hi David,

I would take the Casita. It seems more cozy. Can you reserve the Casita for me?
For what dates do you have it open?
We will probably do the boat trip too.

Here is the plan version 0.01
- Alamos as a base
- Explore 4x4 around Alamo
- Boat trip
- Copper Canyon

I need to close the plans with the group soon so I can give you a better idea on who, what, when.
I will confirm by the end of this coming week, OK?
I need to make sure the other people in the Forum get to me with their plans.

Any suggestions for the other people that may come later and will not have a place to stay with you? Other hotels / motels, camping?

Thanks,
-JACK


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Solipaso
Sent: Thu 11/13/2003 10:02 AM
To: Jack Silberman
Subject: RE: Group trip to Alamos


I have one room that is huge. It is actually 2 adjoining rooms that share a bath, there is a queen bed in one room, and two doubles in the other. This situation works great for a family, it is $125 a night. Or I could put you in our Casita which has a queen bed and can take two roll-aways, this would be $100 per night.

Let me know if this sounds reasonable or possible for you.

David

</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
[B]Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net


Post Edited (JackSilb) : 11/20/2003 5:53:58 AM GMT

[YukonBob]

Jack said...

Now you tell me that? We will need some kind of map to exlore that area.
Maybe the locals will be able to give us something. Well, maybe they will have just verbal directions huh.
I did find a site with better maps. Let me try to get it for you to judge.
The first rule is that there aren't any good maps of Mexico. The one you have is better than most.</div>



I'm sure that David Mackay will be able to give you some suggestions. You are right about the verbal directions. You find out about a road that goes to a destination. You ask about ranches or villages that you will pass through to get to that destination. You go from ranch to ranch asking about the road to the next place on the list. </div>



Or you get a guide to show you the way. Not as much fun, but it saves a lot of time. </div>

[JackSilb]

Exploration is fun.
As long as I have another car with me, we will be fine.
Bring on the fun.

-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[expeditionswest]

Ok, we are out on this triphttp://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/cry.gif

Despite many attempts, work, family, etc. have made it too difficult to get enough days off in a row. Now that I know that most of you have this time off, I will block these days out for next year.

You guys will have a great time!!!http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/yeah.gif

Scott Brady
2001 Land Rover Discovery II
1998 Isuzu Trooper
1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
1977 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
mailto:guide@expeditionswest.com (guide@expeditionswest.com)
http://www.expeditionswest.com
http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2003/El_Golfo_2003/thumbnails/DSC00417_JPG.jpg

[JackSilb]

OK Scott,

I hope Doron is still on.

During the 4WD trips party, I was able to talk to some Mexico experts (Al and Bob). They told me that getting to Copper Canyon from Alamos will be tricky. Actually, they have advised me not to do that if I am not expert in Mexico traveling.

They said that if Copper Canyon is one of our destinations, that should base our camp around there. Then get to explorations. I have the name of the city (that has a great log cabin motel) but not here with me.

Anyone still interested in this trip? I know Uwe has a good chance to make it but not 100% yet.

Thanks,
-JACK


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[WhiteThaiGer]

JackSilb said...
OK Scott,

I hope Doron is still on.

During the 4WD trips party, I was able to talk to some Mexico experts (Al and Bob). They told me that getting to Copper Canyon from Alamos will be tricky. Actually, they have advised me not to do that if I am not expert in Mexico traveling.

They said that if Copper Canyon is one of our destinations, that should base our camp around there. Then get to explorations. I have the name of the city (that has a great log cabin motel) but not here with me.

Anyone still interested in this trip? I know Uwe has a good chance to make it but not 100% yet.

Thanks,
-JACK
</div>The name of the city is Creel. The motel is the Best Western Lodge that I mentioned in my post above. We stayed there on Harry's trip and it's a very nice place. Now Creel is very close to Tejaban, the hotel on stilts at the canyon rim, see pics in my previous post. I don't know how to make reservations for that place or if a month of lead time is even enough. That's a little of a problem with such a 'big' trip, there is only little time to plan left....


***************************************
http://www.confluence.org
http://www.usgo.org

[JackSilb]

Thanks for the information.

The plan seems to go to Creel at this time, stay a night in a city in the way. Creel has so much to explore around it.

Thanks to ECO4WD.com I got some nice information and hits. Once I clear it with Harry, I will post it here.

Doron, we need to talk. I sent you a PM with my phone number. Please give me a call at your earliest opportunity.

Thanks,
- JACK
</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[JackSilb]

Hi Doron,

Are you sure that you can't leave before the 25th?

If not, Copper Canyon may not be a very good option. Driving 2 days down and 2 days back will kill our trip. According to Al and other folks, the 2 days driving would be looong days driving.

Here is how it would be:
- 26 &amp; 27 drive to copper canyon

- 28 to 1st Copper Canyon (5 days are not bad, but 4 days driving....)

-2nd to 3dr drive back to US. 4th drive back to San Diego.

I got some things to do down there from Harry, Al, Bob, and Uwe. It is a nice place.
I got a special deal on the hotel. $60.00 p/ night.

I really would like to make this trip, since Idon't not need to use vacation time to make it happen.

Thanks,
-JACK
</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net

[CaptainSteve]

Hello to all,
After a lot of discussion about our doing Baja (bajia De Los Angeles) instead of Alamos, we have come back to you guys and it looks like your trip has gotten better for us. Baja will be cold, windy and no one to four wheel with.
Anyway we will continue to check in and let you know how interested we are (right now we are about 60% go for the dates you listed above. Botopilas (sp?) would be great and do-able and we would love to go back to Divisidero (sp?).
Steve and Edie

[YukonPeggy]

Hi Jack,</div>
I know you will enjoy Copper Canyon just remember to check the weather out. Don't want to leave home without snow clothes.</div>
Al,</div>
Are you still planning the Bahia de los Angeles trip? If so what dates? Is it a Harry trip (paid tour)? Let us know.</div>
Peggy</div>




"Do not worry about whether or not the sun willrise. Just be prepared to enjoy it."</div>

[AlWalter]

YukonPeggy said...

Al,
Are you still planning the Bahia de los Angeles trip? If so what dates? Is it a Harry trip (paid tour)? Let us know.
Peggy

</div>Yes, it's strictly a "friends" trip. I'm open from 12/25/03 to 1/4/04, &amp;for itinerary suggestionsetc.

[YukonPeggy]

Al - I guess this discussion is moved to the short xmas trip section so I'll answer there.http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/emoticons/headscratch.gif



"Do not worry about whether or not the sun willrise. Just be prepared to enjoy it."</div>

[JackSilb]

Hello,

The Copper Canyon trip is not happening for us.
It is getting too complicated. I could not find another family that can do the long trip version. Work is going crazy. Hotel is gone for that time of the year. Most of this great group is doing the other trip.

I am jumping in the other Thread that has yet another short version of a trip.
http://www.4wdtrips.net/forum/?f=9&amp;m=5404&amp;g=5517#m5517

Captain Steve, come on down. This will be fun. I may even barbecue for the group.

-JACK
</div>


So much to see, so little time. Try using your 4WD tosee and do more.
Tread Lightly! empowers generations to enjoy the outdoors responsibly...
http://www.4wdtrips.net


Post Edited (JackSilb) : 12/8/2003 5:16:43 AM GMT